I’ve experienced burnout throughout work and education since I was sixteen. Usually around once every 12-18 months. I’ve accrued a lot of associated trauma.
For context, burnout for me is extreme depression and executive dysfunction lasting for months at a time to the extent I stop all work and social activities.
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That doesn’t sound like burnout. That sounds like cyclical depression or maybe even bipolar disorder.
You should discuss this with your doctor. There are a lot of things that could be driving this and while it might be job related, it doesn’t sound like it’s specific to one job.
Most people aren’t exactly excited to go to work. Finding something you are passionate about might help a bit but it’s not always viable. Better to find a way to reframe work in a positive light or find a career where you are helping someone or teaching someone. I work in Healthcare and while it can be stressful long hours it’s rewarding when you help someone or I have a student that I can teach.
I think if other options are exhausted you might benefit from medication to help with the extremes you’re describing. Although that’s of course a discussion you should have with your doctor.
I don’t know, I feel like it sounds a lot like burn out (or at least how I understand the term, which might be wrong!) I would manage alright at a job for a year or so, and then the combination of repetitiveness and lack of interest (for more low level jobs) or the accumulated stress and exhaustion from trying & failing to keep on top of everything (for more professional jobs) would bring me to a point of anxiety, depression and ‘mental shutdown’.
Mostly I’d walk out on jobs when it started happening, but I’m my longest job (5 years) I just kept getting signed off work for increasingly long periods, and then I’d come back and be okay for another 12 months and fall apart again.
But I don’t think it’s cyclical depression or something. I had a two year period where I was fortunate enough to not have to work and I was in good form for the whole two years. Now I’ve moved in to academia, and the university schedule with four months off in summer seems to be enough that I don’t hit that point. The end of each semester has me worn out and approaching burnout, but then I get plenty of time off to recharge.
Well a component of this is probably finding a job that is going to work for you. Easier said than done. If you’re in university you should focus on trying different things and just getting experiences in different areas until you find something that clicks. Push yourself to try things that are scary and intimidating. Pick something that you arent sure you can do. You will be surprised what you can accomplish and that success will foster more focus and drive in you. Consider jobs where you don’t know what you are going to have to face. I never know what my day will look like. Yesterday the electrical system in the hospital had a power surge and we had to navigate through that. If it’s interesting you’ll never be bored and you’ll never really lose a desire to go do it.
Maybe my comment wasn’t clear enough, I have a job that I find satisfying, teaching at a university. The five year job I had that forced repeatedly forced me off sick was as a health professional in a hospital, and it was very interesting, challenging and satisfying. But the repetition (not of the work with patients, which was endlessly varied) but just turning up at the same building every day, seeing the same collegues, keeping on top of paperwork, etc. was mentally exhausting.
The advantage to being a lecturer is that the commute, paperwork and stress is seasonal, so it doesn’t just feel like an endless Sisyphian task. In a sense, it’s less challenging and less satisfying work than my time in health (teaching a student something interesting isn’t the same as saving someone’s life!) but the work pattern works much better for me. I think that what the OP was describing about cyclical burnout might be something similar. There are lots of careers (many self employed) out there that are intensely busy for a block and then time off or starting a completely different project. When I start finding teaching too much (and I’m sure it’ll happen eventually, but at least it’s longer than a year!) I’ll probably move into freelance coding or seasonal event management type stuff. Stuff where I can use my strengths of picking up stuff quickly and dealing with problems, but don’t need to worry about the long haul.
My only chance has been remote work. In my case, I work as a freelancer. I’m quite functional when I can do everything at home without facing people, and my job pays well enough/I have my life organized so I do not have to work full time.
This setup worked so well for me that I decided to return to university as a grown up just for the shits and giggles. I was well prepared, had no real pressure to be there, was just going to have fun, but got burnout anyway. Peopling is just not for me.
Utopia.
A great example of what people do with determination, when release - or reprieved- from wage slavery .
“Oh look, I’ll go learn something, for the joy of learning”.
Others would volunteer, set up repair cafes, kids sports.
One can dream
I would absolutely LOVE being a science teacher substitute. With enough leisure and freetime, I’d be all about volunteering and teaching.
I am very lucky, and very privileged to be able to do what I do. Living in EU vs US helps, having few expenses and very few needs really helps. Being very reclusive as well, I really had to spend a long time just with my small family and animals to come to terms with how limited my ability to handle other people is. If I ever feel like going out again I’d start setting up a repair café and swap shop, but I will have to limit stuff like this to one day a week probably or will go into burnout again. I mean, even too much online interaction like commenting on Lemmy sets me into some weird frenzy I have to recover from lol
I’ve struggled with freelancing in the past because there’s too much freedom and not enough structure. Now that I’m medicated and in therapy maybe I should give it another try.
I guess I had always my animals to give me enough structure to not completely lose it, then my child. It’s like an override. Even now with child almost grown and only spending half his time here, you wouldn’t believe how much better I eat when he is here compared to when he’s not, just because I want to make sure I feed him well and set a good example. And I never fail getting up because the animals need feeding - imagine a horse neighing and two donkeys braying when they consider it’s getting a little late. Like having a boss, but with a really fluffy nose and generally nicer and less annoying.
Stop working more than 32 hours a week. And do not make exceptions. Make sure, your work/life balance works out for you.
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I think that feeling comes with the knowledge that what you’re doing isn’t giving you any satisfaction. I dunno. I do the same thing. about once a year or so I just want to disappear. Social activities are a big no, talking to people, maintaining any kind of social contact… just right out the window.
It has to do with early childhood trauma that turned into a fawn response and it’s just gradually developed into something particularly debilitating. it’s a struggle just to keep myself warm, fed and hygienic during these times. Luckily I’ve somehow ended up in a full time remote position, so at least I’m not crying in my cubicle anymore.
a commenter below talked about his uber rides, and I can say I’ve done the same. Where I get in, say yup, it’s me, and then stare out the window silently until I get out.
Dude, I don’t know but at least it helps knowing that other people feel this way too. I always wondered how people could get some random low-paying bullshit job (of which I’ve had MANY), and then just… work. day-in, day-out, for like decades, with no real breaks. Some random, meaningless, stupid job that doesn’t provide anything of any real value to society and… people just do it their whole lives! How the fuck do they not kill themselves?? How do they keep showing up??
They keep showing up because they need to eat. The majority of people hate Thierry jobs, but to they need them to provide for themselves.
I agree with the recommendation for talking to the doctor; I’m in a similar position. This might be completely unrelated to your situation, so take it with many grains of salt.
What I’ve been learning is that a lot of my own burnout cycling seems to be cycles of intense and constant masking. I struggle with social situations, following “chronos” time instead of “Kairos” (if you will entertain the misuse of these), and eventually get so buried in obligations and actively resisting my natural impulses that my wants and needs get muddied and untended to and the pain of pretending or entering social modes builds up too much. Being in a mode, “professor mode”, “friend mode”, “colleague mode”, “spouse mode”, they all build up the tension and while I can seem socially adept, if I’m not in a mode I’m pretty useless. My Uber drivers can attest. Sometimes I do need a break from social activities while I break down the mask that builds up. A decalcifying of the brain. My friends seem to understand.
I’m a teaching professor, and I love the work, it has high flexibility but strict accountability, lots of room to experiment and find novelty, but a massive social burden and ridiculous workload. The only thing I’ve found to help so far, besides medication, is doing less. Fewer work obligations meant more time to de-mask, it meant I could take the more time on my tasks that I refused to admit to myself I needed compared to colleagues, more time to do stupid random impulsive (but safe) BS which I’ve found is the most relaxing to me, and that naturally led to meditating, exercising, and eating a bit healthier, which made things feel more manageable.
I don’t know what the long term prospects of this realization are for me, but consider that ADHD usually means that tasks will take longer and more effort than typical people. Admitting to myself that it’s a disability and I don’t need to work twice or three times as hard as other people to make up for it all the time has been really important.
You also mentioned trauma; a lifetime of letting people down without knowing why really turned me into an over-supporter as an adult. Fawning response to stress - feeling the stress build up and instinctively doing whatever you can to help other people at cost of yourself, rather than fighting or running away or freezing up - and then when you’re alone you fight yourself, freeze, or run away from everything. I’ve been told it’s a form of invisible self harm, and it’s nefarious because the goal is to make everyone else see things as all right.
So I don’t know if any of this clicks true for you, and I don’t fully know the solution to these, but awareness of my own issues has helped a lot, and I think awareness and recognition is key to getting started. Years of therapy, meditation, medication, it’s all making progress, but it’s slow, and awareness has been key to any of the positives. For me, it seems like working less and admitting to myself I have a disability, undoing years of traumatic people pleasing at my own expense, and learning to unmask more in social interactions and at home are key, however that path is treaded.
Yeah, me too. Let me know if you figure something out, because it’s awful.
I can offer some suggestions based on anecdotal experience: First: find something that shares a foundation with a hobby or interest but is not that hobby or interest in itself. I.E. you like doing auto work for a hobby, do not go into automotive but look for things mechanically inclined instead. You need to protect the hobbies from the burnout/job.
2: Realistically, think about how social you are or are capable of and find something in that industry that is close enough to that level of socializing.
Tertiary: Burnout is more often a matter of when and not if. Having to put in excess time and labor or struggling outside of work because of it really adds to burnout mentally. So find a job that either compensates you enough or live a lifestyle that allows you to be comfortable with whatever compensation you’re getting. Don’t get me wrong, its easy to say “just make more money” but a lot harder to do so which is why lifestyle is extremely important too.
So to put it all together, I would say find something you’re fundamentally interested in, that is not your hobby, find something that is adequate to your social capabilities, and make sure to take you time, and not be committed to that one place. The feeling of being stuck, or like it’s a necessity, adds to the feeling that it’s a must and that stress adds to burnout.
For me, I chose CNC Machining because I’m mechanically inclined and I’m not the most social. The pay is decent enough to get by on since I live fairly frugally too. Edit: Except when it comes to bugles. I need a lot of that shit. Lmao
I haven’t been in the workforce all that long but I did experience burnout at my previous job. I sacrificed my mental health so much that I couldn’t concentrate well, meaning I spent longer on work which made me more on edge and things just kept spiraling like that. I had a couple of months to reset with unemployment that did wonders for me.
I found for me the problem wasn’t the work itself but the amount and requirements for it. I am now at a different company doing much of the same tasks but with a less demanding schedule and can work from home. If I can’t focus, I can just walk away and come back to a task instead of feeling like I’m going to explode being trapped in front of work I just cannot pay attention to. And when I am working, I usually have Youtube, an audiobook, music, or a podcast playing to capture overflowing attention. There are still times when it gets bad but it’s uncommon and much more manageable.
I would focus on finding a company that has an emphasis on work-life balance, and is able to retain employees. Flexible schedules and work from home can be dangerous for people with ADHD but I honestly feel like it’s almost necessary. I am not sure I could go back even if it doubled my salary.
I feel driven to respond after reading your response to BugleFingers (whose response I agree with). It really sucks you are feeling shame about your difficulties with working. I believe a lot (not all) of the difficulties that neurodivergent people have with work isn’t anything to do with them, but about the pressures of living under the tyranny of late-stage capitalism.
I don’t think you not being able to work without burning out is evidence there’s something wrong with you, I think it shows that most people don’t get any kind of support in finding sustainable work. I hope you can find a way to forgive yourself for whatever you feel are your failings around employment because you’ve done nothing wrong.
Apart from what BugleFingers wrote (especially doing work you are interested in), I found self-employment/freelance work to be life changing. I like being my own boss because I can choose when I work and when I don’t (with restrictions, obviously) and have found a way to make it work for me and my family.
It feels important to say it took me time to get to a point where this was financially practical, though. I went through a lot of jobs where I went through a cycle very similar to yours (don’t listen to the person trying to diagnose you with more disorders; you getting depressed from work doesn’t equal another diagnosis). I found my profession by doing jobs that seemed interesting and honing down what I actually liked. I think it’s about balancing out what is important to you (e.g., making money, having nice things, having free time, ext.) with what is necessary (e.g., housing, food, bills, etc.).
I hope you can find a job that works for you, OP. Good luck.
I’m sorry if I don’t reply to each individual comment. I really appreciate everyone’s contributions. Having to go through them slowly because this whole topic just brings about a lot of shame and upset for me.
I finally got out of sales almost two years ago, and I’m still not feeling burnout! (Sometimes a particularly tough day will bring a little bit, but it’s not an every-day dread to get out of bed kind of feeling)
I got into sales when I was young and never enjoyed it, but I was good enough to make money. Then, once you have a twenty year resume of sales positions, people are very unlikely to hire you for much else. Despite what the college degree says.
Fortunately, I found a boss who’s as ADHD as me (I only mention that, because I suspect that we ADHDers can spot each other from a mile away and naturally “get” each other) at the local college and now I get paid to throw parties!
I quit my corporate job after burnout and went through six months of depression. Then I started my own business, contracted back at my old company doing my old job for 4x the pay and it was amazing. No more performance reviews, “quality” meetings, etc. If they wanted to force me to sit in a meeting, I was getting paid by the hour. They couldn’t dictate my hours, so when I needed a break, I took one.
Being in control was what saved me. Never work for others if you can be an independent contractor or entrepreneur.
Thats the fun part, you dont! /s
The first 7 years of my working life was like that. Up until I experienced a job that was different everyday. Different locations, different problems to troubleshoot and figure out. Sometimes at really neat places (i.e. Lockheed Martin, Raytheon, USAF bases, manufacturing plants, etc.).
You need to get into a trade and do service work. I did Automatic Doors, Locksmithing, and Access Control. Did that for 15 years, decided to learn a new trade, and now I’m learning refrigeration…
