There it is, Israel is annexing Gaza. No more Palestinian state.
The Palestinian state is in the West Bank (about 16x the land area of Gaza).
It would be more accurate to say that the Palestinian state lost control of Gaza to Hamas, and Hamas is losing Gaza to Israel.
Because the west bank isn’t under IDF occupation yet? Every day settlers are carving out chunks of it, and there’s checkpoints everywhere.
The Palestinian Authority only has exclusive security control of roughly 18% of the West Bank – Area A. However the IDF basically enters it whenever they deem it necessary anyway, so exclusive is a misnomer.
The PA has joint security control with Israel in 22% known as Area B. The rest of the West Bank – 60% in Area C – is under direct Israeli control. Area C is where all the illegal Israeli settlements are. Palestinians are also pretty much never granted building permits, etc in Area C. And it’s worth noting that Areas A and B are non-contiguous as dotted islands of control inside of Area C.
It would be more accurate to say Israel is stealing it
Hamas initiated a war with a horrific military/terrorist attack on Israeli civilians on October 7. Sometimes when a belligerent starts a war, it ends up losing territory.
Israel started a war with Palestinians with their occupation in 1967 (if we forget the whole Nakba thing).
Look man, bad shit happens in war. Just don’t pretend to be the fucking good guy when your militant to civilian kill ratio is 1:3.
According to Wikipedia the ratio for the October 7 attack was around that figure, yes:
- 859 civilians
- 282 soldiers
- 57 policemen
- 10 Shin Bet members
Plus the rapes, tortures, and abductions.
Yes we know, and that’s why we are all so curious to find out why you only give a shit about Israeli civilians. You cunt.
I think we all know the answer to that question.
They think there are no civilians in Gaza, only Hamas and other animals that need to be exterminated.
I mean, an israeli spokesman on cable news wouldn’t even admit that Israel had killed babies in the mass bombings.
So, if only hamas has been killed, and by the Israeli govts own talking points no other humans, then the ratio is like 15000 Militants : 0 Civilians.
Probably the best war ever guys!
And now it’s the reverse on a 10:1 ratio.
The West Bank is a Bantustan. Plain and simple.
It would be more accurate to say that the Palestinian state lost control of Gaza to Hamas, and Hamas is losing Gaza to Israel.
Not wrong, but same outcome.
I’m not really sure what other outcome Hamas thought there would be when they launched their Oct. 7 attacks and then are continuing to hold hostages. Widespread killing and sexual violence launched from Gaza against Israel, killing ~1,400? Whether or not you agree with Israel’s actions since then, it should’ve been apparent to anybody that Israel was going to retaliate in a major way, they shoot kids who throw stones at them, like they weren’t going to respond with a massively disproportionate show of force. I guess they wanted to spark a greater war against Israel in the Middle East, that seems like the only other outcome that “makes sense”, but does the rest of the Middle East care that much about the Palestinians to get into another war with Israel? It sucks for the people caught in the middle just trying to live their lives.
Hamas didn’t have a plan beyond “shake the hornets nest and hope the other side puts us in a better position after the rubble is cleared.” They just wanted to cause a disturbance that would put them on the world stage again.
Gambling that Arab states actually give a shit about Palestinians beyond what domestic political advantage they can provide is a bet that hasn’t generally paid off.
I think they’re still not entirely over the whole “Jordanian king visits Al-Aqsa and gets assassinated by Palestinian terrorist” business from way back in 1951.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abdullah_I_of_Jordan#Assassination
Hamas took hostages so Israel would come after them of course. They’d been unsuccessful provoking them with small attacks prior.
Sadly for the Palestinians, Hamas is actively trying to use them as war propaganda by forcing a war and as much suffering as possible. Why? To isolate Israel and soften it up for the larger attack.
Hamas took hostages because hostages are one of the few ways they can secure concessions from Israel. This is the status quo Israel created in 2006.
By this logic, Israel had already annexed all of Palestine before the 2005 withdrawal.
Not to mention, Israel has managed security in the West Bank forever. If Ramallah has actually been annexed, it’s rather strange that you won’t find any Jews there, and that it’s actually illegal for Israelis to even visit this apparently annexed territory.
Perhaps the situation is slightly more complex than that.
Security for Israelis, not for Palestinians.
Israel bans Israelis from visiting Ramallah because they don’t want Israelis interacting with Palestinians, and especially shopping in Palestinian businesses.
If I were Israel, I would also retain security controls there for some time. Though, I am quite afraid how “security controls by Netanyahu” will look like.
Not really, nobody in Israel talks about dismantling Palestinian Authority
This is a book that has been written many times. It starts with a military occupation and ends in a Israeli state.
Hey look that’s what we’ve been saying all along. Israel just looking to annex more land.
More like setting up checkpoints between cities. Actively hunting for terrorists and launch sites and the return of settlers and settlements to Gaza. Hamas did it!
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Well, you never saw an attack of this scale in the West Bank, where the IDF does have an extremely thorough presence. And you never saw this happen before the IDF withdrew from Gaza.
So, yes, you have sarcastically arrived at a true solution. Well done.
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It’s amazing that people can see Apartheid and how it ended and never question Palestinian actions. Apartheid ended because there was a belief in a peaceful future. There’s no Mandela in Palestine that can convince the Israeli’s that giving up power would lead to peace. And after a 20 year experiment in self rule in Gaza failed; it’s hard to see the alternative.
Just fyi. Apartheid didn’t end because of peaceful protest.
The ANC had been peacefully opposing the Apartheid government. But that all ended after the Sharpeville massacre commited by the Apartheid government.
Then MK was formed ( uMkhonto we Sizwe). MK was the armed guerilla resistance that Mandela and the ANC saw was needed, because the Apartheid government wasn’t giving in to peaceful opposition of their government.
You’re probably confusing what people say was a ‘peaceful’ end to Apartheid because civil war was avoided.
And it was only truly avoided because the resistance had to make so many unfair concessions to the international liberal powers that be ( imf, the US etc.) and the Apartheid government. Otherwise the Apartheid government was gearing up to actually start mass murdering the non white population (aka genocide).
There truly are a lot of parallels between Apartheid south africa and israel
don’t forget, the MK was also considered a terrorist organization.
The problem is that there’s no peaceful organization saying “yes two state solution” or “yes one integrated, non-religious state”.
Weaker violence only works if there’s a weaker peaceful option.
Like the other guy said, what ended Apartheid was the ANC’s violent resistance and international pressure.
Also the “experiment” in Gaza failed because Israel has blockaded Gaza exactly as long as Gaza has had self-rule (both started in September 2005). The Gazan economy was dependent on using the income from agricultural exports to import food and other life necessities. Then Israel came and just said no you can’t do that.
Also the “experiment” in Gaza failed because Israel has blockaded Gaza
The world’s largest ever suicide bombing campaign started that blockade. And two decades of indiscriminate rocket fire kept it going.
The Iron Dome isn’t magic. It can only intercept so many projectiles. No blockade and Gaza is recoccuoied in 2008.
You have no right to land other people already live on, unless you buy it from them. Settlers have no rights. We’ve mixed past this since colonization.
If peace can’t be sustained, might makes right unfortunately.
So, you’re telling me that Israel is doing the right thing simply because they’re stronger?
No. I’m saying that when a conflict starts there is no “right” anymore in the colloquial sense. And while I can easily blame am aggressors in a conflict for removing the comfort of peace, it’s much harder to justify blaming the entity attacked for its response.
A huge amount of Israel’s land was legally purchased during the late Ottoman era and the later British Mandate. We have plenty of records.
So was the land that the US “bought” off of the indigenous tribes. Doesn’t make it right. Certainly doesn’t justify an ethnic cleansing.
Eh, some of it. I won’t pretend to be an expert, but I’m pretty sure most American land was acquired by settlers simply marching in with guns and saying “We’re here now”. That’s to say nothing of the countless treaties that were signed and broken.
I don’t exactly think the Osage were contacted about the Louisiana Purchase.
Well we’re Americans we didn’t march, we rolled in on a wagon.
settlerscolonizersSynonymous
yeah, but different words have different implications and connotations. We say settlers, and that word doesn’t hit as hard as colonizers or oppressors, even though they all pretty much mean the same thing.
In fairness colonizers just sounds silly. Just like most words with a “z” in it.
return of settlers and settlements to Gaza
This will go well 🥴
No it likely won’t go well. But it doesn’t really need to go well. It just needs to go better.
what needs to go better? Israelis stealing Palestinian land and homes?
Well since 2004/2005 there have been zero Palestinian homes or land stolen by Israeli’s in Gaza. And as a result 100k+ rockets, the world’s largest suicide bombing campaign and endless militant attacks have come out of the territory. So from am Israeli perspective, if those things stop; even if it means that a few Palestinians get kicked out of their homes, it’s a win.
Fascist scum.
Probably settlements like east bank.
Sounds like apartheid to me.
Ethnic cleansing.
Not at all. Read the definition of ethnic cleansing.
Maybe you read it.
I have.
Do it again.
I have and it still does not relate to Israel. Death of 15k whilst the number of Palestinians is 5 million is not genocide. Surely, it’s terrible but it’s not a genocide especially considering how many of them died due to lack of bunkers in Gaza.
Oh sweet summer child you gave away the game.
“Death of 15k whilst the number of Palestinians is 5 million is not genocide. Surely, it’s terrible but it’s not a genocide…”
Please tell the class what words we were looking to define that you so confidently assured us you had read multiple times??
No one else wants it (being peacekeepers) - or do you know anyone?
Doubt it, 15% of Israel are Muslim. They would become Israeli citizens like the rest did.
If Israel actually gave all Palestinians Israeli citizenship, you’d be right. But, that’s not going to happen. Why do you think the Nakba happened and Israel keeps rejecting Palestinian right of return? They want Israel to have a Jewish majority and they’re willing to commit Apartheid and ethnic cleansing to get it.
They should let the people literally trying to murder them for the last 70 years elect their leaders? Brilliant plan.
Not doing this is apartheid/ethnic cleansing? Please. Gaza was given the chance to elect their leaders, they chose Hamas and intifada.
I bet they could negotiate for a right of return provided they are willing to pacify themselves and sue for a viable peace.
The Nakba happened because Palestinians declared war on Israel and lost.
You’re a disgusting and pathetic human being.
Edit: BTW how do I report people to the instance admins?
You’re a disgusting and pathetic human being.
Edit: BTW how do I report people to the instance admins?Pretty sure disagreeing with you isn’t against the rules. You just violated rule 5, however.
For justifying genocide/ethnic cleansing (take your pick).
I’m suggesting that those terms do not accurately describe what’s happening.
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“WE CAN’T LET THEM VOTE OR THEY MIGHT VOTE FOR THE WRONG PEOPLE!”
Put the mask back up, your authoritarian and bigoted cheeks are showing.
Are you aware of the fact how easy democracy can be turned into a dictatorship? Just look at Germany from 1930s.
Majority of Palestinians are quite radicalized. Take Gaza inhabitants, for instance. For the past 18 years Hamas was governing there and you know what’s Hamas’s main goal? To remove all the Jews and Israel altogether. Many Palestinian citizens actually support this narrative.
Now let’s be realistic: how many % could Hamas get in the Israel+Palestine elections. Just look at this poll: https://thehill.com/opinion/4273883-mellman-do-palestinians-support-hamas-polls-paint-a-murky-picture/ This means Hamas would probably get anywhere from 15-25% if there were joint in Israel+Palestine. Do I have to keep on explaining why this would be a catastrophe? And also don’t forget to add some radical orthodox Jews who believe the entirety of the land was given by God to Jews…
For the same reason there aren’t joint elections between south and north korea…
What a load of shit.
Justify your bigotry however you want, you are still acting in a way that would make Hitler proud of you.
This is unbelievable man. You are literally accusing me without proving one relevant argument whilst I in detail explained why at the moment it would have disastrous effects to let Palestinians vote in Israeli government. And I am rather ignoring the Hitler note cause it’s rather funny.
Have you ever been to Israel and Palestine? Cause to me it seems like you have no clue what’s happening there and acting like you’re the most knowledgeable in the world.
Second-class citizens. Almost all palestinians do not even have the right to vote, and even those who do have fewer rights.
Gazans were given the right to vote and they voted for Hamas, who did a coup and made sure that no other elections would be held again.
Are you talking about Palestinians in the West Bank and Gaza, or Arab Israeli citizens with a Palestinian background? Because those are two very different legal categories. Arab Israelis have full legal rights. Palestinians don’t, because they’re not Israelis, which I’m pretty sure is something we all agree on. Israel doesn’t claim them, and you’d be screaming ethnic cleansing if it did.
Not only. I hope it can be seen from lemmy.
Props to the graphic designer.
Now what’s the exact issue you have? People who are not Israeli citizens and do not live in Israel cannot vote in Israeli elections. People who are citizens and who do live in Israel can vote. The housing discrimination that mentions is gross, I’ll admit, but that’s the main objectionable thing I see.
Do you want Israel to annex the West Bank or something?
I don’t want it, but even in the case of gaza and the west bank they are de facto under israeli control or even under permanent military occupation, with no expectation of diminishing but the opposite, isn’t this essentially an annexation but denying their rights?
gaza and the west bank they are de facto under israeli control or even under permanent military occupation,
Probably because they remain at war with Israel and have yet to stop attacking them or make a viable peace, choosing endless intifada and it’s predictable consequences instead.
The exact issue is that Israel is repeating both the holocaust and apartheid all at the same time.
Since fucking when is it NOT an issue that people don’t have the same rights? Wtf
Repeating those words like a mantra only serves to dilute them because you’re using them inappropriately.
Both Holocaust and apartheid generally refer to denying people rights or killing them because of their genetics and that’s clearly not what’s happening here. Israel is at war with Palestine because Palestine keeps trying to murder Israelis, not because of Palestinian genetics.
If you think anything happening is remotely comparable to the Holocaust, you don’t know anything about the Holocaust. If Israel was trying to exterminate Palestinians the way the Nazis tried to exterminate the Jews, Gaza would be a sheet of right now.
I also don’t have the right to vote in Israel, which makes sense, seeing as I don’t live there and I’m not a citizen. I weirdly don’t have the right to vote in Germany or Russian either.
And did you ask yourself why they don’t have the right to vote? It was decision made by Hamas and PLO not to organize another election.
So outright annexation.
In multiple steps, yes.
This article has been removed by AP - the URL links to the live update stream from Dec 6th, and links from other articles to this one are similarly broken.
Was this article formally retracted?
The link works just fine for me.
The link works just fine for me.
Which lemmy client are you using?
The title of the linked article is “Israel moves into Gaza’s second-largest city and intensifies strikes in bloody new phase of the war”, which appears to have been appended to the post URL:
https://apnews.com/article/israel-hamas-war-news-12-05-2023-8f171da297b565e28156b88d1fc250b1 Israel moves into Gaza's second-largest city and intensifies strikes in bloody new phase of the warStandard chrome browser.
Link works fine
Nah, OP just picked a sentence from the article and used that as a title to generate the specific response they wanted.
This is the best summary I could come up with:
The military said its forces were “in the heart” of Khan Younis, which has emerged as the first target in the expanded ground offensive into southern Gaza that Israel says aims to destroy Hamas.
Military officials said they were engaged in the “most intense day” of battles since the ground offensive began more than five weeks ago, with heavy firefights also taking place in northern Gaza.
In other developments, Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu said the military would have to retain open-ended security control over the Gaza Strip long after the war ends.
The assault into the south is triggering a new wave of displaced Palestinians almost two months into the war, raising warnings from relief groups that they can’t keep up because supplies are insufficient and combat prevents distribution.
In the central Gaza town of Deir al-Balah, just north of Khan Younis, a strike Tuesday destroyed a house where dozens of displaced people were sheltering.
Dr. Nasser Bolbol, head of neonatal intensive care at the European Gaza Hospital in Khan Younis, said acute hunger was spreading, with some deaths of children from dehydration and undernourishment, after nearly two months with only limited aid entering the territory, under an Israeli seal.
The original article contains 1,416 words, the summary contains 201 words. Saved 86%. I’m a bot and I’m open source!
It’s as if they’re tired of Gaza constantly attacking them…weird that.
It’s as if people aren’t happy their land was stolen from them… Weird that.
If you answer to that is to gun down and rape a bunch of people at a music festival, I’m not going to be terribly sympathetic.
If your answer to that is to bomb hospitals killing children and innocent civilians because maybe it’ll hit a terrorist too, I have no sympathy, you’re a war criminal
Congrats on realizing that both sides suck here. Welcome to nuanced centrism.
Centrism is without nuance.
Brilliant effort there mate.
