PTB. They have the ‘right’ to trim their own community according to such ideas as “If you disagree too loudly I will instaban you”, but it doesn’t make it any less stupid or power-tripping.
take that shouldn’t be hot: except for in very small communities, mods should not do moderation on their own posts’ comment section, especially when they are the type to be super defensive and invested in their posts’ success. this is the case with those like jordanlund, flyingsquid and the PTB here.
in other words, !usauthoritarianism@lemmy.world has two mods. if mod A makes a participatory (non-pinned/PSA) post, mod B should be the one that handles violations in that posts’ comments. especially if mod A is a frequent commenter and gets into arguments easily.
I didn’t make it in the screenshot 😔
I also got banned for that LMFAO
I didn’t even say anything about the ‘strawman’ I just said that “ban you for speaking too loudly” was bad
I find that that’s usually the case for most people. The part of the school system that was responsible for teaching them critical thinking skills really failed them. It’s also why people try to dumb down politics into one of two sides, it’s why our government will always inevitably fail. This guy is using the authoritarian label because that’s as far as his understanding of politics go. The US is an oligarchy, the US is imperialist, the US is nepotistic, but it is not authoritarian, yet.
Having said that, there are groups certainly interested in claiming that so that the authoritarian label means less for other nations, the sort of nations they want to defend. Given the submissions in that “community”, I would say this is the case here. People who really are against authoritarians and who might believe the US to be wouldn’t go and whitewash other authoritarian states. This community is a manifestation of whataboutism propaganda IMO.
The US deserves criticism, but if you really want to make it, I would encourage avoiding places with an underlying agenda like this one. In case you disagree with me, you can test it out easily for yourself, just post there and compare the US to other countries you would consider de facto authoritarian states, and see which countries they have a problem with you bringing up for comparison.
The US is authoritarian in the form of inverted totalitarianism.
We don’t live under the dictatorship of the US government as would be traditional authoritarianism, we live under the dictatorship of capital which effectively owns the US government and controls the population by force.
You shouldn’t of gotten banned for that but at the same time mods have the right to protect their communities from people who argue in bad faith and given this is the internet it’s safe to assume bad faith. (Even if you weren’t)
Edit: it’s interesting that myself and a bunch of other queers have a very different opinion on what authoritarianism looks like compared to the average (straight male). I bet our life experience has nothing to do with it and we’re all just over sensitive whiners 🙄
Just because someone coined the term in 2003 doesn’t mean there were better terms to address it, and frankly, adding an adjective onto a term that doesn’t really fit it doesn’t really change the fact that it is not authoritarian. In other words, I inverted agree with you.
I also got inverted banned by them. Meaning I was never banned from the community because I never participated in it, but I was in the totalitarian aspects that their ideology would have constrained with my liberty of expression. Or something. An inverted something. I just checked in case a sudden one had popped up over there, and the most recent ban I have are from several lemmy.ml communities because of how I offended their dear Kim Jong-un by reporting on one of his bans in a way that was not in accordance with the state sanctioned inverted liberty protocols.
🙄
Bad faith…
Ok so then this is in bad faith, and so is the above. Guess we all get bans in order to “protect” communities from checks notes differing opinions.
You don’t have the right to be in spaces that aren’t yours. You’re a guest. If they don’t like what you’ve got to say for whatever reason they have the right to ask you to leave. I’m not on world because they’re a bunch of liberals with barely two brain cells clicking together between the lot of them.
“We’re good and you’re bad”
Holy shit lmao you can’t write irony this good.
Oh it’s irony you wanted?
What the hell is going on with that community? :D
Hahaha this comm’s mods are on the sauce, this is insane.
“Alright you’re banned for a month for being an uncivil asshole, but when you get back I’ll make your uncivil ass a mod.”
There’s a theory that the horrible grammar of the Nigerian email scams that gave them away helped them because it automatically helped filter out the people who could have given them the most trouble and would have been the easiest to scam. The same applies to here.
LOL I knew that and they still use similar techniques in the Calcutta Call Centers today, but I never thought about it applied to really anything else, you’re probably right.
Just for the lols, someone try asking them if they’re pro-Russian
They 100% are, and tell you that they don’t actually support Russia but have a “temporary ally” against the capitalist super power… Blablabla…
In the end they support the genocide in Ukraine, hate that genocide in Palestine and generally cherry pick what they seem fascist (the US and Europe) and what not (China, while Russia is temporarily fascist, but that’s okay because of reasons).
Those guys were never politically active in the real world. It’s super sad, because deep inside they are on the right track. They just would change one (capital fascist) system by stalinism (which they call communism).
Very beautifully written!
I’m having a very hard time believing this isn’t ironic.
I find that that’s usually the case for most people. The part of the school system that was responsible for teaching them critical thinking skills really failed them. It’s also why people try to dumb down politics into one of two sides, it’s why our government will always inevitably fail. This guy is using the authoritarian label because that’s as far as his understanding of politics go. The US is an oligarchy, the US is imperialist, the US is nepotistic, but it is not authoritarian, yet.
Having said that, there are groups certainly interested in claiming that so that the authoritarian label means less for other nations, the sort of nations they want to defend. Given the submissions in that “community”, I would say this is the case here. People who really are against authoritarians and who might believe the US to be wouldn’t go and whitewash other authoritarian states. This community is a manifestation of whataboutism propaganda IMO.
The US deserves criticism, but if you really want to make it, I would encourage avoiding places with an underlying agenda like this one. In case you disagree with me, you can test it out easily for yourself, just post there and compare the US to other countries you would consider de facto authoritarian states, and see which countries they have a problem with you bringing up for comparison.
Lol, the US has more prisoners than any other country on earth, it maintains torture black sites all over the world, it’s currently actively helping to exterminate an entire country. The only reason you could say it’s not authoritarian is because, in practice, “authoritarian” just means “an enemy of the USA”
What is usually the case?
I’m saying that the mod is being too ridiculous to actually be serious, they must be trolling.Also, the school system was supposed to teach me critical thinking?! I thought that’s what video games were for…
I’ve always been weary of that community. It had some tankie mod vibes.
Nobody cares
Other then this guy above, clearly.
To be fair, he didnt say he was against authoritariamism.
Is communism even possible without authoritarianism?
Edit: lol I pissed off the tankies
Not in the worlds current state. Communism is what comes after the worlds problems are already solved, regardless of what people on here think, its not happening any time soon.
More social policies are needed but these guys messaging is so bad and off it refuses to look introspectively they end up sounding like trumpers
If everything is shared under communism, that would include political power. thus (imo) communism is a direct democracy.
Edit: forgot what thread I was in. What the hell does communism have to do with US authoritarianism?
Ideal communism is what you described. Not communism in practice
Yeah, but humans are awful animals and true communism is a pipe dream.
The awful ones are awful. They’re allowed to take power in the current system. We have awful rulers and the awful people who support them. We need only be aware of this phenomenon to mitigate it. Your solution appears to be not accepting possible solutions, which is just inaction. How does inaction stop awful people from destroying the planet?
They’ve been allowed to take power in basically every system that has ever existed. The entirety of human history is a showcase of the fact.
Sure, we might be able to be better on small scales, but there’s a reason communism has never worked, and will never work on a large scale.
It looks great on paper, but not so much in practice. There’s always going to be evil people who are only interested in personal gain at the expense of others who are charismatic enough to dupe the population into letting them and participate in the committing of atrocities.
Humans are just too easy to corrupt. I think it’ll likely be our Great Filter.
commission*
Yes. Communism was never meant to be authoritarian anyway, it’s a classless, moneyless, stateless society. Only some people don’t believe in the stateless part.
Yes.
You’re not wrong though. While it might be possible to do in theory people are not that nice or kind, you’ll never get everyone to share what they have and not own or try to possess things without an authoritarian government forcing it. Maybe in a more ideal world you could achieve it but that’s not the world we live in.
“Gommunism is when everyone share everything”
Communism is an ideology that states that the means of production should belong to the working class, nowhere do the principles of communism deny the ownership of personal property. Look at home ownership rates and see which countries have the highest (China, post-soviet republics), and the lowest (Germany, US) rates
…you should do some more research. What you just described isn’t communism, it doesn’t even match the dictionary definition of communism which requires there to be no private property. China has been progressively moving more free market even though they remain steadfast in their dystopian autocratic ways.
It’s not possible with authoritarianism either :)
Unless you count the version everybody insists on calling “social democracy” nowadays. That one can be done.
Traditional communism probably isn’t possible but it’s near guaranteed that no one in Lemmy wants communism like it’s traditionally taught
Edit: the fuck are you doing in a post about USA authorianism
Why are you booing me I’m right
I get the ironic angle of the mod being “authoritarian” but that’s their space and if they decide they don’t want to deal with trolls arguing about they can ban people.
Just like trans communities can and should ban people who just want to argue about if trans people are real. If you try to argue against it you’re just being a dick and distracting from the point of the community.
How was OP trolling? They simply called out the strawman in the OOP
If the point of a community is spreading misinformation, you have a moral obligation to distract from the point of the community
Are you suggesting America isn’t authoritarian?
I’ll bite, compared to Russia or China, the U.S. is not an authoritarian state.
Do you think it is?
Lol, further proof that the word “authoritarian” is just a meaningless snarl word for foreign adversaries.
They have a larger prison population then any other country and spend more on military than the next several countries combined
why prison pop is so high then?
Money.
how is that different from “an authoritarian state”
Oh its worse.
Are you suggesting term length has anything to do with authoritarianism?
The gulag system is mostly for the blacks, we are not the same.JPEG.
And does that apply to when transphobes decide that trans people being real is “misinformation”?
No, because it’s not. Truth is not subjective.
Lmao, my sweet summer child.
Seems like all comments here are “whatabout communism”
US being an authoritarian shithole is pretty undisputable reality. It could be preferable to debate the point than outright banning the possibly misinformed, but the assumption of military bot troll propagandist is not unreasonable.
deleted by creator
You and I disagree, so it’s obvious you’re just a Kremlin bot account, here to sow discontent.
Not really sure how you came to that conclusion, we definitely have our problems, we aren’t perfect, but we definitely aren’t an authoritarian state either
The USA has the highest incarcerated population in the world. Per capita it’s about 2-4x the list of “authoritarian” states that usually get referenced.
Do you want to do a quick compare on the rates of extrajudicial killings as well?
I don’t know what better quantitative measurement for “authoritarian” are than life and liberty. Do you have better ones?
While this is true I’m not sure what that has to do with authoritarianism. I think the reasons for incarceration speak far more to what is authoritarian and what isn’t. A thousand people incarcerated for murder isn’t authoritarian, a single person jailed for speech is. The US doesn’t have a perfect track record there but it’s far better than most other countries.
Homicide rate is far less than other countries.
People are jailed and murdered in the US over “speech” all the time.
It seems like your “us is far better” is based purely on vibes… Unless you’ve got some numbers you’d like to share?
An ethnic minority criminalised and prosecuted several times more than the ethnic majority of the country is authoritarian though.
No, its a hallmark of an authoritarian rule, not the proof of one. Believe it or not many places in history have been right bastards and have also been anti-authoritarian (think french revolution, the start of most communist revolutions, etc.) sometimes they are so anti-authoritarian they end up authoritarian.
We have an Israel first rulership. Every politician pledges allegiance to Israel. Tik Tok ban is because it is not zionist media, and the theory that young people are opposed to genocide is because they use tik tok, even through IDF gloating videos promoting their attrocities are on Twitter too, as are muslim disapprovals of genocide.
You have zero freedom/power to stop your theft of war support of Israel or against Russia, Canada, Greenland, Panama or Europe. Or stopping your nuclear incineration. Citizen’s united means only rich people speech counts. Congressional bills in congress will outlaw criticism of zionism/Israel. That you are currently permitted to have sex with people you choose is against the Christofascist agenda that will be pandered to in next 2-4 years. But it is the predetermination of democratic outcomes for the most favourable to Israel, war, oil, and the extreme corruption of by the oligarchy for the oligarchy rule, that makes the US more authoritarian than governments that simply contains divisive distractions, while defending and advancing the country’s needs. “Democracy and Freedom” is complete BS used to warmonger those accused of being less liberal than apartheid ethnostate Israel.
You+state approved media have the freedom to say US is not authoritarian, while I’m still allowed to explain reality. But neither of our opinions has any relevance whatsoever on our oppression.
While this is true I’m not sure what that has to do with authoritarianism. I think the reasons for incarceration speak far more to what is authoritarian and what isn’t. A thousand people incarcerated for murder isn’t authoritarian, a single person jailed for speech is. The US doesn’t have a perfect track record there but it’s far better than most other countries.
Incarceration rates are definitely not a plus in anti-authoritarian case for US. The highest in the world. Blacks or the poor are oppressed as a race/class to feed for profit prisons, and keep them “in line”. If voting or speech changed anything it would be made illegal. MLK Jr was erased for influence. Nazi/supremacist speech is free and welcome by the state. Change is not.
A democratic free speech country can be the most evil by far. Speech promoting evil is just more loud than the plebs speech, and media explains to the plebs why oligarchy is bestest speech.
World Incarceration Rates If Every U.S. State Were A Country
The top 35 “countries” in incarceration rates are US states. By this metric, the US is by far the most authoritarian state in the world. And research shows that it is an oligarchy, not a democracy.
So you’re anti-Semitic…got it, explains everything
I suppose you excuse whatever the Israeli state does in Palestine? What say you about the violation of geneva conventions?
Of course not, depends on what it is. You can’t just write a blank check so to speak and tolerate ANY behavior, that’s not remotely acceptable no matter the side, but alas no matter what I say Israel doing anything other than rolling over is them doing too much for you guys.
As a Jewish “Israeli” (Occupied Palestine) I am a proud antisemite, I wear that word as a badge of honor.
Anti-zionism is not Antisemitism. Your conflation of the two is genuinely antisemitic.
Zionism is anti-Semitic at it’s core, it other-izes Jewish people, and justifies the violent settler colonialim of Israel as in the defense of all Jewish people, which only serves to further fuel genuine Antisemitism at the expense of Jewish people globally.
Zionism is also an inherently fascist ideology. The ethnic cleansing of the native people of Palestine has always been fundamental since it’s inception as a colonialist movement.
Adi Callai, an Israeli, does a great analysis of how Antisemitism has been weaponized by Zionism during its history.
Israel wouldn’t be attacking Palestine if Palestine hadn’t attacked first.
It would and was.
Zionism is a settler colonialism project that was able to really start with the support of British Imperialism. Zionism as a political movement started with Theodore Herzl in the 1880s as a ‘modern’ way to ‘solve’ the ‘Jewish Question’ of Europe. Western Nations supported this instead of instituting legal protections and refuge for Jewish people fleeing persecution.
Herzl himself explicitly considered Zionism a Settler Colonialist project, Setter Colonialism is always violent. The difficulty in creating a democratic Jewish state in an area inhabited by people who are not Jewish, is that enough Palestinian people need to be ‘Transferred’ to have a demographic majority that is Jewish. Ben-Gurion explicitly rejected Secular Bi-national state solutions in favor of partition.
Quote
Zionism’s aims in Palestine, its deeply-held conviction that the Land of Israel belonged exclusively to the Jewish people as a whole, and the idea of Palestine’s “civilizational barrenness" or “emptiness” against the background of European imperialist ideologies all converged in the logical conclusion that the native population should make way for thenewcomers.
The idea that the Palestinian Arabs must find a place for themselves elsewhere was articulated early on. Indeed, the founder of the movement, Theodor Herzl, provided an early reference to transfer even before he formally outlined his theory of Zionist rebirth in his Judenstat.
An 1895 entry in his diary provides in embryonic form many of the elements that were to be demonstrated repeatedly in the Zionist quest for solutions to the “Arab problem ”-the idea of dealing with state governments over the heads of the indigenous population, Jewish acquisition of property that would be inalienable, “Hebrew Land" and “Hebrew Labor,” and the removal of the native population.
-
10 myths of Israel by Ilan Pappe, summerized and full book
-
Transfer Committee and the JNF led to Forced Displacement of 100,000 Palestinians throughout the mandate.
Peace Process and Solution
Both Hamas and Fatah have agreed to a Two-State solution based on the 1967 borders for decades. Oslo and Camp David were used by Israel to continue settlements in the West Bank and maintain an Apartheid, while preventing any actual Two-State solution
Hamas proposed a full prisoner swap as early as Oct 8th, and agreed to the US proposed UN Permanent Ceasefire Resolution. Additionally, Hamas has already agreed to no longer govern the Gaza Strip, as long as Palestinians receive liberation and a unified government can take place.
Oslo was used as a land grab while continuing to deny Palestinians human rights
(Oslo Accord Sources: MEE, NYT, Haaretz, AJ).
How Avi Shlaim moved from two-state solution to one-state solution
‘One state is a game changer’: A conversation with Ilan Pappe
Historian Works on the History
-
Palestine: A Four Thousand Year History - Nur Masalha
-
The Concept of Transfer 1882-1948 - Nur Masalha
-
A History of Modern Palestine - Ilan Pappe
-
The Hundred Years’ War on Palestine - Rashid Khalidi
-
The Ethnic Cleansing of Palestine - Ilan Pappe
-
The 1967 Arab-Israeli War: Origins and Consequences - Avi Shlaim
-
The Biggest Prison on Earth: A History of the Occupied Territories - Ilan Pappe
-
The Gaza Strip: The Political Economy of De-development - Sara Roy
-
10 Myths About Israel - Ilan Pappe (summery)
The existence of Hamas, and any armed resistance movement, is directly due to the decades of violence experienced daily under the permanent occupation, the Apartheid State, of Israel. It’s impossible to understand their existence if you don’t understand the lived experience and material conditions they are forced to live under. There is no such thing as a perfect victim when it comes to anti-Colonialist resistance, not for the Vietcong, the IRA, or the ANC either. Can you condemn the violence of the Warsaw Ghetto Uprising in the same way as the violence of the Warsaw Ghetto?
In the Shadow of the Holocaust by Masha Gessen, the situation in Gaza is compared to the Warsaw Ghettos. The comparison was also made by a Palestinian poet who was later killed by an Israeli airstrike. Adi Callai has also written on the parallels in his article The Gaza Ghetto Uprising and expanded upon in his corresponding video
I love that you posted this, but you’re wasting your time feeding a known troll.
Why is it that Arabs live peacefully in Israel yet a Jew steps foot in Palestine and gets killed. Also…just throwing this out there but you should really listen to some of the talks given by Mosab Hassan Yousef, they are incredibly eye opening.
What was the capital of Israel in 1896?
2 can play that game, it really isn’t productive. Where was Israel located in 900BCE?
US of course should have its ruler determined by Netanyahu. It’s anti semitic to suggest otherwise. Congress will soon declare those who are anti-genocide to be deportable terrorist scum, and I will not burn anything down, because I am not a university student terrorist scum. But I will put a notch in the authoritarian shithole column.
The fuck are you actually on about???
Use some other words than “anti-semitism”. That card is too old and has dog ears
While we aren’t as bad as some other countries we are still pretty authoritarian we have the largest prison population in the world and have one of the highest incarceration rates in the world.
That doesn’t happen without being authoritarian.
Actually you are as bad as other countries, usually worse by any objective measure.
Define authoritarian
Why? You won’t define communism.
ACAB really is universal.
Odd way to argue, but I can get you both:
Communism (no idea why you wanted this its kinda a non sequitur): a political theory derived from Karl Marx, advocating class war and leading to a society in which all property is publicly owned and each person works and is paid according to their abilities and needs.
Authoritarian: Favoring or enforcing strict obedience to authority, especially that of the government, at the expense of personal freedom.
Notice that jailing people can fall into the authoritarian set but does not in itself make a nation authoritarian. Take the US for example, its worse then being authoritarian (at least following the rules would keep you out of jail mostly) since its high incarceration rates have more to do with private prisons making money and providing political kickbacks then any attempt at enforcing authoritarian rule.
Are you Grammar Police?
Why? Do I have to be? Or are you a member of the comment police?
Project 2025 has joined the chat
deleted by creator
The place is filled with plenty of examples of US authoritarianism. Consider lurking before posting OP.
Why would it be considered authoritarian to state that you wont rule out military use to rule over the Panama Canal or ban medical procedures decided between doctors and patients?
Plot twist: The mod is from US and just proving their point.
fascist attempts to spread liberal fascist US state dept propaganda that has been debunked thousands of times over
cries about muh freeze peach when told to stop spreading misinformation
Yeah go back to .world, bud
…this screenshot is from lemmy.world.
Go easy on them, ml users aren’t known for their observation skills.
That doesn’t sound very patriotic? Dont you know 'Merica is the freest country in the world. You’re free to have your labor value exploited and your tax dollars sent of to forign genocidal regimes, if you disagree you’re free to go to prison for protesting and be used as free labor.
PTB stinking hypocrisy from a distance.
Counterpoint. It’s not a strawman. The US is is an authoritarian state. If you disagree too loudly I will instaban you. also Why are you here?
Strawman wasn’t enough, was it? There’s an implicit false dichotomy here, between accepting the idiotic reasoning and the conclusion or rejecting both (thus the user not belonging to the sub).
EDIT: to be clear. I won’t talk if USA is/isn’t authoritarian, that is not my point. My point is that the mod in question is clearly being irrational, and hell breaks loose once you put irrational people on power. I also don’t think that he should be removing users for not agreeing with the premise of the sub.
Is it a mock-up of Trump being a general dipshit, getting things wrong, then aggressively doubling down on those things when people say anything.
They’re getting reamed out in the comments, which is great to see.
The US is an authoritarian state
Not yet.
Always has been.
Daddy uses lube tho
100% YDI, there’s no power tripping for moderator to kick someone out for useless flaming or trolling, it’s one of their duties.
Where is OP trolling?
Tolerant for the intolerant smth smth
