cross-posted from: https://lemmy.world/post/22892955

The Prius Prime is a dual fuel vehicle, able to run 100% on Electric, or 100% on gasoline, or a computerized blend in-between. This presents me a great opportunity to be able to do a direct comparison with the same car of an EV engine vs an ICE engine.

  • Toyota computer claims 3.2mi-per-kwhr.

  • Kill-a-watt (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kill_A_Watt) claims 2.2mi-per-kwhr.

  • Additional 1.5% losses should be assumed in the wires if you wish. (120V drops down to 118V during charging, meaning 2V of the energy was lost due to the resistance of my home’s wires).

  • Level 1 charger at home (known to be less efficient).

  • Toyota computer claims 53miles-per-gallon (American Gallon).

  • I have not independently verified the gallon usage of my car.

  • 295 miles driven total, sometimes EV, sometimes Gasoline, sometimes both.

  • 30F to 40F (-1C to 4.5C) in my area this past week.

  • Winter-blend fuel.

  • 12.5miles per $electricity-dollar (17.1c / kw-hr home charging costs)

  • 17.1 miles per $gasoline-dollar ($3.10 per gallon last fillup).

If anyone has questions about my tests. The main takeaway is that L1 charging is so low in efficiency that gasoline in my area is cheaper than electricity. Obviously the price of gasoline and electricity varies significantly area-to-area, so feel free to use my numbers to calculate / simulate the costs in your area.

There is also substantial losses of efficiency due to cold weather, that is well acknowledged by the EV community. The Prius Prime (and most other EVs) will turn on a heater to keep the battery conditioned in the winter, spending precious electricity on battery-conditioning rather than miles. Gasoline engines do not have this problem and remain as efficient in the winter.

I originally wrote this post for /c/cars, but I feel like EVs come up often enough here on /c/technology that maybe you all would be interested in my tests as well.

  • Mr_Dr_Oink@lemmy.worldEnglish
    2·
    3 days ago

    You haven’t run fuel tests. That was the whole point of the argument.

    Ok soni saw 30 to 42 you saw 45 to 63

    Lets take an average with the numbers we have.

    30 +42+45+63=180

    180÷4=45

    So 45mpg… less that what you used to calculate your costs.

    Dont tell me to bugger off because i haven’t done tests when you have also done no tests on fuel.

    I know somethi g that will piss you off.

    I drive an electric car.

    It costs me 7p (about 9 cents) per kwh to charge.

    It cost me £11.68 (about $14.89) to charge last month and i get about 3-4 miles per kwh.

    I travelled 487 miles last month from the 1st to the 30th.

    It cost me 2.4 pence (about 3 cents) per mile to drive this car.

    American miles are the same as british miles

    And i pulled the mpg data from american sources so your gallons are the same.

    So despite your findings, my electic car costs less than your hybrid to run.

    But i doubt your data is accurate, so thats fine.

    • dragontamer@lemmy.worldOPEnglish
      11·
      2 days ago

      I know somethig that will piss you off.

      Wow. And you call me arrogant.

      You haven’t run fuel tests. That was the whole point of the argument.

      Toyota claims 48mpg. I claim 53mpg. My test has different results than Toyota’s claims. The entire basis of you (and the other guy’s) posts is mistaken from the beginning. And now you add bullshit numbers from unlisted sources despite two Prius owners in this topic telling you our statistics. And yet, I’m the arrogant and biased one. That’s… interesting.

      Do you understand your position in this matter? I’m the one with the car. I can literally run the complete test when I want. And finally, I’ve shared my initial test results of 53mpg on a much smaller scale (mostly because its now 50F and I’m now unable to do cold weather tests. And the weatherman says I won’t have a near-freezing day for another week or two). Furthermore, it would take a substantial amount (ie: 200 miles of driving) to get a reasonable test done… assuming we want something like ~4 gallons averaged out on the test to help mitigate any errors.

      But if you don’t like the initial numbers I’ve given you (53mpg), that’s not a fault of mine or methodology or whatever. I’m simply showing you my best estimate of reality here. And since YOU admit you don’t own this car, I’m not sure what the fuck you could possibly contribute to the discussion (nor the other guy for that matter).

      • Mr_Dr_Oink@lemmy.worldEnglish
        2·
        2 days ago

        Yes, you are arrogant.

        You admitted to not running the test. Toyota dont claim 48. They claim 52. Unless you have the XSE or XSE premium model and not the SE.

        If you are getting better stats than the manufacturer, then something is wrong with your test because they get those numbers in absolute perfect conditions and with very specific settings in the car, allowing them to maximise the mpg.

        Yes, you are biased. You are reporting higher stats on the fuel and lower stats on the electric than toyota report. And you got and still are super pissy that people are arguing with you about it.

        I understand my position. I dont own the car, so i have done research and looked at toyata reported stats as well as real owners stats and aggregated the results to come to a conclusion. That is more reliable than one persons individual experience. Especially when that one person hasnt done enough fuel only testing (which you stated plain as day) but wants to draw a conclusion from that.

        Do you understand your position here? You haven’t done enough testing and are posting information to help other buyers make a choice about a purchase. It’s not enough data and may be wrong. So you are potentially causing others to make a poor decision on car purchase.

        It absolutely is the fault of your methodology. Your method was to rigorously test the electric but use toyotas claimed stats for fuel. That’s the method you used to test each engine. That’s poor methodology. Using the manufacturers’ stats is closer to hearsay than you might want to admit.

        You also bring up the weather conditions again. IT IS LITERALLY IN YOUR ORIGINAL POST where you say that the combustion engines are not affected by weather conditions. So do the fucking test!

        Frankly, i can contribute as much as you since we both havent tested the fuel only capabilities of thos car. frankly i think you are a little man child who cant take a lick of critisism and would rather resort to insults than accept when you are wrong. Frankly i think you need to stop being aggressive towards me and the other poster and go and drive you car to get some actual stats.

        • dragontamer@lemmy.worldOPEnglish
          11·
          2 days ago

          Unless you have the XSE or XSE premium model and not the SE.

          You don’t even know what trim I have. This discussion is a waste of time.

          You are reporting higher stats on the fuel and lower stats on the electric than toyota report.

          Welcome to ICE cars dude.

          https://pressroom.toyota.com/toyota-prius-sets-guinness-world-record-for-highest-mpg-for-a-coast-to-coast-drive/

          Earlier this summer, Gerdes drove from Los Angeles City Hall all the way to New York City Hall in a Prius LE and achieved a staggering fuel economy average for the entire trip of 93.158 MPG combined. This smashed the previous record which was in the mid-70s MPG combined.

          The actual 'perfect efficiency’s Prius driving is 93MPG right now. Seeing 53 MPG practical is kinda normal for this car.

          Now if you haven’t driven this car yet, you can go bigger off. I’ve got initial stats suggesting 53MPG.

          • Mr_Dr_Oink@lemmy.worldEnglish
            2·
            2 days ago

            You haven’t said what trim you have… so no… of course, i dont… wow.

            You ha e quoted a combined mpg when we are discussing the fuel only mpg. so that is actually useless…

            And once more… you have not driven this car on pure fuel so you and i are in the exact same position… you owning the car doesnt change that… at all.

            Sheesh. Listen to yourself. Instead of kicking off about stats you dont have and insulting people how about you look at your attitude and your reported stats and consider drawing appropriate conclusions.

            You cant use your own personal tests with electric and toyata testing with fuel and compare them in your conclusion. Those are two separate sources of data.

            Stop ignoring this i have said it so many times.

            It doesnt stop being true because you dont want to acknowledge it…

            • dragontamer@lemmy.worldOPEnglish
              11·
              2 days ago

              I have driven this car on pure gasoline.

              That’s the fucking joke you nit. It just doesn’t match the temperature conditions so it’s not apples to apples.

              The 53mpg number stands unless you do your own test and report back to me. Yes it was a small test but I actually have hard and real data.

              You think you can sit there on the internet and pretend to tell me how I’ve run my own test? How fucking arrogant are you?

              • Mr_Dr_Oink@lemmy.worldEnglish
                2·
                2 days ago
                • I have not independently verified the gallon usage of my car.

                That’s you. In your original post.

                You haven’t tested this yourself.

                You explocitly stated i your original post that the combustion engine is not affected by different weather conditions like an electric motor. But now you claim the weather being different is why you have not done the test yourself. But also its because of how far you would have to drive and not actually because of the weather.

                You consistently contradict yourself.

                So no. I am not telling you how you ran your own test

                YOU FUCKING TOLD ME, YOU ABSOLUTE CREATURE!

                • dragontamer@lemmy.worldOPEnglish
                  11·
                  2 days ago

                  I have a test reporting 53mpg. You do not.

                  Everything else is just a weird internet ego shitstorm. But at least my numbers are backed by reality. Yours are not.

                  So as I’ve said many posts ago, bugger off until you do tests yourself.

                  • davidagain@lemmy.worldEnglish
                    2·
                    2 days ago

                    Your test is just saying what the car claimed. Same as ever, you trust Toyotas data unless it’s electric when you do some weird shit with your home electronics kit and magically prove the car is lying about it’s electrical efficiency.

                    If you think it’s lying about the electrical efficiency, why on earth do you quote its gas efficiency, and no, I don’t believe you turned off the regenerative breaking and just did a pure gas test either.

                    So yeah, I’m calling you out on your double standards when you’re posting “hey folks, don’t trust Toyotas data on electrical efficiency” in the same thread as “look, Toyotas data shows how efficient the car is on gas”.