They mostly make them for themselves as far as I know.

Lemmygrad.ml maintains Prolewiki

Do they? Genuine question. Isn’t it just that there is some (or a lot) of user overlap?

I’d be happy to help set up a wiki. All it needs, realistically, is a server, a database, and something like Cloudflare for when it inevitably gets targeted for DDoS. And some configuration.

The real challenge is to do this with appropriate infosec. The best course of action is probably to ask someone that is already doing hosting for lemmy.ml if they would be interested in also hosting a wiki (we could run a donation drive to fund them) and to offer technical help. Would that be dessalines?

PS this is my new account of a longtime user, just rotating for infosec reasons.

I wonder what dbzer0’s implementation is like. I know slrpnk uses dokuwiki with a db connector for using you’re Lemmy account for authentication (you have you be a slrpnk user).

I think if these servers are already implementing their own wikis then the burden on server admins already exists for those that want it. I haven’t checked in on the Ibis project in a while, but maybe one day that would be the “official” wiki for Lemmy, in that it’ll have first class support for integration with Lemmy.

I like that Jones Manoel article from Black Agenda Report. I will send you some books related to that when I am on PC. I think the formatting is great. I was focusing on expansion of this format of reading list, next step is to make this stuff usable offline or if posted somewhere without discussion/group chat, like a textbook with dicussion prompt questions, but obviously that is a lot of work so I will take it on myself and see how it turns out.

Basically I see no reason Marxists should have to turn to the few orgs that offer free online classes. Materials should permit people to form their own, not simply prepare them to be inducted into an online community.

@TheOubliette@lemmy.ml already gave a fantastic answer regarding Occupy, Arab Spring, and BLM, so I’ll answer your edit instead. I know you’re an Anarchist, but I really do recommend reading at least the basics of Marxist theory. If you’re going to organize, you’re going to run into Marxists eventually, and it will be useful to understand what we believe and why. I wrote an Introductory Marxist-Leninist Reading List (also referenced in the post itself), and am willing to answer any questions you have.

BLM is a good example of what happens when you don’t organize with any structure or leadership, actually.

For background, BLM flared up as riots and then protests and people’s occupations in response to racialized police violence, of course. It was a reaction and not organized initially. Organization grew from on-the-ground experience as individuals and orgs shared spaces and developed political programming and actions. But this all happened locally. There was no national group that could legitimately claim to represent BLM, as every city had their own set of orgs and organizers. There was overlap, of course, as many of tge participating orgs spanned multiple cities, but no org or coalition could legitimately say, “these are our demands” at the national level.

Now you might be thinking, “hey, TheOubliette, what about the literal national organization called Black Lives Matter that published demands and spoke to the press?” Well, that group is exactly what you tend to get in the West with a left leadership vacuum: they just asserted they were in charge and started taking credit and raking in donations to their NGO. That national org was full of NGO veterans looking to advance their careers, not on-the-ground organizers. It was essentially a grift / cooption.

I’ve been unfortunate enough to see this kind of thing happen a few times. For example, there was a space that pledged horizontalism but then whoever brought a bullhorn to the next action ended up being the real person in charge. They weren’t selected to do that, few people even knew who they were. But the crowd did what they said and people got arrested due to their bad instructions. I’ve seen other situations where a group declares itself representative unilaterally and begins speaking to the media and making demands or negotiating, and they end up saying and doing things completely at odds with the wishes of the collective. I’ve also seen situations where people tried a bit harder to have some structure, but ended up creating disconnected teams for different domains (press, logistics, action planning, security, etc) but the whole project blew up because one subset of one team declared themselves the only voices that mattered, using self-tokenizing and very inconsistently applied (most people of that identity there disagreed with them) liberal identity politics to justify their power grab. The project ended because they used those shenanigans to throw away leverage and told everyone to go home - it was too difficult to reassemble because communication methods were not solid and most attendees were not in organizations

This is a weakness that arises from having weak, inexperienced, and poorly-structured groups, especially when they create a leadership vacuum. Many things work very well autonomously. Mutual aid and black bloc, for example. But for a larger organizing effort, there are key functions that must be carried out on behalf of the larger group in order for it to actually succeed. There needs to be a deliberation process so that decisions can be made quickly enough without being illegitimate by being non-representative. There need to be people that organize the deliberation process itself. There need to be people that ensure the decision is carried out. There needs to be a way to have some kind of community discipline around some of the decisions - like what to so if a subset of people start doing their own thing at odds with the community decision and putting people at risk. Assuming the organizing effort has external components, like it is intended to change something or confront another party, you need to develop demands and messaging and then have people who deliver and share those things. If you don’t have those things, the organizing effort is vulnerable to the disruptive factors already (and more). Decisions will get made and people won’t understand them and will get very angry. Some people will try to enforce a decision and those who disagree will literally fight them. Without people designated for communication, you will be represented by whichever person gets in front of a TV camera first. Capitalist media is oppositional. With Occupy, they used the fact that the various people talking to them provided about 50 total demands to then suggest that Occupy had no realistic ides of what it wanted to accomplish. There is some truth to that, but mostly this is a consequence of having no media discipline.

Anyways sorry this comment is so long. I wanted to add a lot of context and examples so that it’s clear I’m not being blindly dogmatic, but speaking to the fatal weaknesses of these efforts.

You have to have leaders and then do everything in your power to not let them succumb to vanguardism.

I also lean more in to an anarchist style of leadership, but decing everything by quorum can paralyze movements or leave them without a clear message.