Well I’m not trying to run ahead and throw out a bunch of shit before you elaborate on what you’re saying. I mean you told me to move on to arguing about the veracity of this footage but I think these discussions have no purpose unless we establish what premises we are working with and what the history of the conflict is.

A lot of civilians already died in the civil war in Ukraine 2014-2022 before Russia got involved. There is a lot more to this. I just doubt considering how you reply we will get to that but, these are still emails, and we can stick to one thread if you want lol.

Even their main mobile clients aren’t up to date and the beta ones are missing even more features it is pretty wild. They decided to switch programming languages or something.

Dude you don’t even know how to gish gallop properly. You’re just being annoying.

What would you define “many massacres” carried out with artillery as.

Actually I want to ramp this up. Give me one example of a massacre on Ukrainian soil committed by the Russians. If you want to use Bucha I have plenty of material about that which was written by a guy I know in Oregon. But I would prefer to give you yet another opportunity to show you have a single non US propaganda source.

Well I mean we did start off by talking about your claim the Russians are indiscriminately bombing civilians though! I would prefer to get your unsourced claim out of the way so we can see that yes, it is just parroting what the Ukrainian government says. But yes I will show you videos the Ukrainians themselves have posted of hurting civilians in a second. You do not get to flip around your claim and demand I prove a negative. That’s not how it works.

As an aside, I know significantly more about the Grayzone’s conflicts of interests than you LMAO. They are not infallible, all modern journalism is severely limited due to financial, and political constraints. I will source US financial news frequently because they say the quiet part louder than CNN and NBC et al

It’s called paraphrasing. It means literally the same thing. 🤣 You are fucking desperate.

Also, I am convinced you are just stupid at this point. Crimea not being in the dataset doesn’t refute a single thing I said. You’re completely incoherent in every comment.

You are contradicting yourself LOL, you say NATO has no bearing on the European economic situation while admitting in the next breath it has huge implications for energy prices due to trade with Russia. Europeans have been debating their quality of life drop, and your countrymen have been calling me blind drunk screaming about how they have no money and they can’t decide if they hate the Russians or you anti-Russian zealots more. You are simply unaffected by the actual damage because you are economically insulated and 100% of your political leanings are based on oversocialization. They have no connection to material conditions in Europe. Basically cope and go buy one of your state manufactured vodka seltzers you underwear drunk idiot.

You cannot be serious, this is a distinction without a difference. I can’t believe you’ve managed to find a way to fence sit between your own position and mine. Yes, to add to your inability to read, you seemingly intend to exhaust my energy by arguing about meaningless nonsense. You have the attitude of someone who does not value their time.

Your only “tactics” are thought cancelling cliches, creating a semantic difference where there is none, and again rebuking sources as “propaganda rags” you didn’t even attempt to argue with me pointing out Western sources have a conflict of interest when reporting on their own war.

I like how you primarily quoted yourself and chose to ignore all of the “content” you were actually presented with. I responded directly to your sources and claims, you leave me with pedantry and a refusal to examine what I posted. I doubt there is a good reason to continue this discussion but like I said, we are still unpacking the premises of what we are arguing over. I raised doubt about the basis of your claims, we are not going to just mindlessly run with you sourcing only one side of the conflict.

You are already retreating from your claims about Russians indiscriminately targeting civilians. I guess I caught you empty-handed.

A peace plan without ceding Donbas? That’s just a NATO warplan. Oh well I guess no more account for you. I didn’t even report you but good riddance.

You blew an account for this?

I have no skin in the game except rhetorically. All I have to do about it is be right!

I guess you don’t keep up with the missile attacks as much as the Ukrainians do!

There is more than one book about Gladio but at this point I am just going to assume you are a real boot boy who loves the western military and believes everything they say and dismisses all criticism as conspiracies. Don’t beat around the bush you slimy motherfucker. You believe the CIA claim that the document is “communist forgery”. This is the organization that took ib Hitler’s men after the war. Why didn’t you state your reasons for dismissing the document as a hoax? Worried you might look “Muricacentric” man?

https://responsiblestatecraft.org/2022/09/02/diplomacy-watch-why-did-the-west-stop-a-peace-deal-in-ukraine/ The “Zelensky is a badass” narrative in 2024 is hilarious. So you expect me to believe negotiations did not fall through because of the West intervening when Foreign Affairs admitted they had a peace deal worked out prior to the UK doing so. Fat chance. You really perceive this as a Manichean struggle and not a geopolitical conflict motivated by finance. Dogbrained bullshit.

Yes the military aid is specifically to prolong the war are you serious? You actually think the western countries are just sending the aid to be nice. Ukraine now has one of the worst debt situations in the entire world, and who do you think that is owed to? The same firms that ensure your children will never own a house, buddy.

It’s not a strawman you just again said that “of course” there’s a bunch of civilian massacres under investigation. You literally just made the same argument you said was a strawman a sentence ago. Show your sources so we can expose your total intellectual dependence on spoon feeding from the media of the US and its allies.

The Office of the United Nations High Commissioner for Human Rights (OHCHR) verified a total of 35,160 civilian casualties during Russia’s invasion of Ukraine as of July 31, 2024. Of them, 23,640 people were reported to have been injured. However, OHCHR specified that the real numbers could be higher.

I already know of this. First of all this statistic is of the total reports of civilian deaths on both sides in the war, this already shows you are terrible at reading. How am I supposed to expect you to treat anything else I show you seriously when you cannot even read your own material? You can’t chalk up every single civilian death reported in the conflict to Russia, that is completely idiotic.

Second, they are taking Ukrainian government reports at face value. Prior to the war in Ukraine The Guardian and BBC and NYT all commented on how corrupt the Ukrainian state is, among the worst in the world.

Third, the UN human rights commission is headed by an EU guy, and is overall an institution which is controlled by the US and never intervenes in US imperialism. The US openly mocks UN officials it has problems with, like with the Iraq war, and uses its clout to prevent Iranian, Russian and Venezuelan politicians from accessing the UN without being arrested. The UN’s total abdication of responsibility as an international human rights institution and subservient reliance on the US and its allies has been put on full display by a year of genocide in Gaza.

https://geopoliticaleconomy.com/2022/03/17/human-rights-ngo-hrw-amnesty-us-government/ Yes Amnesty has close ties to the White House. The global financial system, telecommunications, journalist and academia, it’s all very centralized with America, Western Europe, Japan, Australia, South Korea, Singapore, and to some extent wealth petromonarchies’ main cities Riyadh, Dubai, and Abu Dhabi

It’s 2024 and you are deepthroating the White House narrative. You trust the people who invaded Iraq because they said Al-Qaeda was there to tell you who “the bad guy” is.

I will show you plenty of sources, including actual video of Ukrainian forces torturing and killing civilians that has been verified independently. But first I want a source for your claim that Russia is indiscriminately bombing civilians. I will show you how easy it is to verify that your sources are not independent, funded by western finance capital, and undermined by statements from think tanks which cater to higher brow audiences on “your side” aka the ruling class that knows you don’t know how to research and most of their population is functionally illiterate.

I am well aware of what the headlines say. You don’t know your head from your ass without the Associated Press or the BBC weighing in on the subject.

drag the war out as long as possible

You have very poor reading comprehension, or you are very dishonest. They are stating their intent to prolong the war beyond any potential peace agreements. Do you even know what a “stay-behind operation” entails? First the West intervened in 2022 to stop Kiev from negotiating, they prolong the war with aid, make a lot of money, and they intend to use the territory to launch attacks on Russia no matter what happens to the army and the government.

Think Crocus Hall style attacks. That is what the real Operation Gladio entailed.

Drones flying into apartment buildings. Knowing this is what the west promises even after potential negotiations will make Russia settle for far, far fewer territorial concessions. Between the missiles and the provocations they may steamroll the entire country after they dispose of the main lines of conflict.

There are many other points to cover here but it is important for you to understand you cannot breeze your way through historical references and then pretend you know what Operation Gladio was. You’re lazy.

Why exactly are you so convinced Russian leadership wants to massacre Ukraine and have a wasteland on the border? Ukraine was a vital trading partner for Russia prior to the western coup. Why do you think that the US and its allies fund a proxy war on Ukrainian territory? Out of the goodness of their hearts? They have been privatizing state assets in Ukraine, speculating on them, taking advantage of the spike in European requirement for US natural gas to replace Russia, and making huge military industrial purchases to replace what Russia destroys.

I’m sure Russia will settle for a slowly steamrolled Ukraine as a second option if the terror attacks on Russian office buildings etcetera continue, they might not even stop at western Ukraine, it could go on for years. They have been willing at many points to freeze the conflict so that they can go on making some money with Ukraine. Like I said it took them ten years to come to the aid of Donbas while civilians were being bombed there (Ukrainian leadership openly bragged about making the eastern Ukrainians’ children stay in bomb shelters rather than school). The west chose the drawn out destruction of cities, the destruction of a dam for no good reason.