No, it’s because their manager who manages the business(hypothetically) isn’t paying them.
dick dick dick dick dick dick dick
Just like groceries don’t include tax in the advertised price. the system is designed to screw us over.
Just like groceries don’t include tax in the advertised price.
Nah, that’s just in America, because Americans are dumb. Tipping doesn’t exist here BTW, because it’s idiotic and why would we do that.
(if Americans aren’t dumb, why did they vote for Trump twice?)
(I finally found an upside to the Trump presidency!)
Almost 70 million people voted against him, myself included. We’re not a monolith. Also, only 11 states tax groceries.
Americans are dumb af. Source: am American
Left, right and a hook.
To be fair, no products sold (that I’m aware of) include tax on the sticker price, and here in TX groceries (unprepared food) are not subject to state sales tax.
It pits the well being of the customer against the well being of the server. It’s a pretty evil system. Pay everyone a living wage. Everybody deserves to live.
walk it yourself then
If you find like paying for service don’t go out. This is the way that it is and these are likely the guests that then get on Yelp and complain…about service. You can adjust minimum wage all you want but professional waitstaff aren’t going to pander to the wealthy for minimum wage. Minimum wage service sucks as it should, you get what you pay for; minimum wage, minimum effort. If you don’t like the system, change it, don’t victimize your fellow workers. They accepted the job under this current system. I’m in that system and am working to change it but until then if you don’t tip due to your high moral standards YTA. And it’s not because USians are stoopid (we are), it’s just the ingrained culture. Under capitalism the guest will be paying this money regardless. Much like this fauxmockracy, your choice is an illusion…
Replace waiter with “CEO” and you begin to understand why socialists believe what they do
*Manages the business, pretty sure that is their actual job, but…
I believe in socialism because the lions share of value should be returned to those who exerted the majority of effort, not the inverse, which is the stupid system we have now
Except instead of 25%, it’s 250%.
And the company owners do not walk or have to deal with customers.
Of course they don’t walk, they ride pelotons
It must be hard not knowing even the most basic math. How is this CEO getting more money than I pay for the meal?
Makes me glad I live in a state that got rid of the tipped minimun and just has one across the board minimum wage.
Who’s the cheap one in this equation?
… the customer who is paying the owner of the restaurant for the food AND is obligated by social convention to pay extra to the waiter who is underpaid.
or
… the restaurant owner who doesn’t mind living in a world where we have normalized underpaying restaurant workers to the point where we pass down that responsibility to the customer who is already paying for the food.
Pay your workers a proper wage and get rid of the idea of tipping.
Don’t like tipping? Protest the policies by not going to restaurants, dont shove it on the workers who are stuck in the system.
The owner is 100% happy you came to pay him and not the waiter he didnt wanna pay anyway.
Thats one way of looking at it… but if everyone would stop tipping, they would be forced to pay them a living wage or go out of business when all the staff quit. Its actually in the consumers power to effect that change, but only on a mass scale. Unfortunately its an awkward social coercion tactic at play now, which just continues to perpetuate the problem pitting us against each other just as capitalism intends to.
How does this form of protest translate into a change of the tipping system?
At this point youre just being disingenuous. There’s a thousand comments in this thread answering that question, and explaining why stiffing the workers doesn’t really affect the owners, or incentivise them to change anything.
Tipping is fine, but as in “keep the change”, not “we need to change this tipping culture”
Here’s the equation. Restaurants keep food costs low by paying servers next to nothing. If they paid them what they deserve, the cost of your meal would increase.
So by not tipping, you are benefiting from the low cost of food while screwing over the person that has no control over the situation. YTA
If you don’t want to tip, don’t go to a restaurant that has servers.
Now, other places that actually pay a living wage and also have a tip button (ie concession stands at a sporting event) can get fucked.
Are you suggesting that food prices will go up by more than the cost of the tip tacked on?
Because if not it’s really just more honest pricing, and the same (or reduced) impact on customers, but without having to do math or having the option of being a leech.
If tipping ended and restaurants paid their servers, food prices would go up. That is undeniable.
You are eating at a discount with the expectation that you will pay the owner’s employee for them. Yes, it is unfair and sucks but the one making out like a bandit here is the owner.
So, not tipping is your way of benefiting personally on a discounted meal AND STILL giving the owner money. And the only one you have punished in your equation is a server (the leech???) who is generally living off that tip day to day.
So if you want to make an impact, quit going to restaurants that have tipping as an expectation! That’s it! Otherwise you are just encouraging the owner to keep the status quo!
Except that I’m fine if the cost of my meal increases if they paid their servers what they deserve.
Same here. I’m just saying don’t protest tipping by not tipping. You’re screwing the wrong person.
So by not tipping, you are benefiting from the low cost of food while screwing over the person that has no control over the situation. YTA
Customers aren’t the assholes for the failures of the restaurant industry, just as customers aren’t the assholes for the refusal of the federal government to ensure restaurant workers are paid a living wage.
Customers who don’t tip are not the enemy.
*artificially low cost of food
The owner is evil, but anyone who doesn’t tip a waiter that earns too little to be able to afford to live is an asshole.
Here’s a tip: that waiter should unionize.
You heard it here folks, it’s just that easy. Unionize today! I’m sure there is a well established Union already in your area ready to take you on and fight for you and your $15 a month in dues! Go gettem, tiger.
Of all the reasons I’ve seen for why people struggle to unionize, I have never seen anyone suggest that unions don’t want members.
Sorry for the downvotes. Lemmy users can be remarkably shitty
As someone who works in the service industry, this is the argument that I see all the time. “We aren’t going to subsidize your wage because your owner is an asshole.” Weird, you have no problem being a patron of his establishment. Do you think that your refusal to tip somehow hurts him? Because it doesn’t. It only hurts the staff. My argument always has and always will be that we increase the cost of menu items by 18% and then split that additional 18% with the staff. However, that idea always falls flat with the owner because, “We’ll be the most expensive restaurant in town. No one will come here.” Which is a valid concern. And so, we are at an impasse. He can’t afford to pay me what I’m worth, and he can’t increase the cost of the menu or he’ll outprice his customers, and I can’t quit because it’s not better at any other restaurant. In the end, in any direction, the customer is going to pay more, either as a tip, or just for the cost of the food, or they’ll pay with worse service because the experienced staff can’t afford to work there anymore. Refusing to tip isn’t a protest, it’s just being cheap and making yourself feel better about it. If tipping went away, prices would have to increase, and either way, the buck stops with the consumer. Want to eat cheaper? Cook at home. I’m sure you’ll be just as good as any of your favorite restaurants with their specialized equipment and cooks with a decade of experience.
I hope all you downvoters have something of value to contribute… Oh, no, you’re just downvoting to show your solidarity with the rest of the cheap-os? Ok, enjoy your meal.
So… If i read this correctly… The net difference is zero? Except when I’m being an asshole and I dont tip.
So in the end, this boils down to offering the option of being an asshole to your customers.
As an european I always find this discussion weird. And when visiting stateside I never really can “gauge” what I should tip. Am i in a joint which underpays the server? Is (s)he fine? Is 10% enough? More? Should i just make it whole? I just never know. I sometimes even have resorted to just bluntly ask the server or a patron what is customary. (my weird accent helps getting an honest answer)
It’s quite honestly a shit fest. There is an amount on the billl… But that isnt the real amount, except when you’re an asshole. And if you over tip you’re still an asshole, just a stupid one, and if you’re undertip you’re also an asshole.
Come to think about it: it really boils down to which kind of asshole do you want to be.
It’s a VAT, but it’s a choose your own VAT, and it’s based on what the service is worth to you. The customary amount is 20%, but a lot of people go between 15% and 20%, with my average take home being around 13% because of the people that don’t tip. So, choose your VAT. In the end, when adjusted for the cost of living, eating out in the EU is about the same as eating out in the US and adding a tip. The tip is just already included in the meal cost. If we could all agree to do that in the US, then it would be fine, but we can’t, so it isn’t done. It’s part of the establishment at this point, and change is something hard to sort out across 330 Million people all at once.
Only thing that stands out to me is the percentages you’ve listed. I was always taught (and most of my peers seem to have been as well) that the normal tip for average service was 15%. Poor service (that is in the waiter’s control) gets 10%, and good/great is 18-22% (but usually 20%).
I was born in the early 90s if it makes a difference.
No idea why you’re being downvoted so much, you’re absolutely on point for US restaurants. I’ve served in them, I’ve managed them (still didn’t fucking get paid doing that)
And this press the union button bullshit above is insane. Restaurants have like a 5% success rate already, if they can just yeet entire Starbucks/Walmart locations on a whim, how the fuck do you guys think that’s going to go with a restaurant?
Unionizing may be the best route, but we have to stop pretending it’s a walk in the park to do.
I don’t know why you’re downvoted, it’s the average decent opinion: the pay has to be somewhere, either fixed in the prices or in decent tips.
Tipping is bullshit. Restaurants should pay their workers properly. But I’m not gonna punish the server for that. She has zero control over that.
If I can’t afford to tip then I just don’t go to the restaurant. People would prefer to make up excuses for why they don’t wanna tip and how that doesn’t make them an asshole while taking huge huffs of their own farts. If you don’t like the tipping culture just go to a fast food restaurant or make your own food. Why is everybody such whiney bitches about everything?
Customers are NOT punishing staff by refusing to tip.
Our school teachers all did a great job at getting us to blame other students when when one student did something bad, and the teacher punished all of us for it. My teachers did this gaslighting bullshit many times when I was in school. And now a whole new generation of adults are perpetuating the cycle. But it’s wrong.
The restaurant owner is the one to blame for poor wages. The owner will say that the restaurant cannot afford to stay open otherwise. This is probably true. Many – if not most – restaurants in america cannot afford to exist unless they effectively steal wages from their workers. We either need legislation to fix this, or we need to let these restaurants die.
Drag never tips while eating out.
Drag also lives in a country with a livable minimum wage and no tipping culture.
Can you just not tip? We live in a tipping society too, but tipping is just goodwill. Like if your waiter is really nice, and the whole thing was 115 dollars, you might give him 120 and he can keep the difference. Sometimes just a roundup, fromm 5.60 to 6 bucks or something. But it’s not expected.
Presumably, your country pays its servers a living wage so they don’t have to scrape by on tips. This has been the state of the US labor market in most non-fast food restaurants for decades:
A tipped employee engages in an occupation in which he or she customarily and regularly receives more than $30 per month in tips. An employer of a tipped employee is only required to pay $2.13 per hour in direct wages if that amount combined with the tips received at least equals the federal minimum wage [$7.25 per hour]. If the employee’s tips combined with the employer’s direct wages of at least $2.13 per hour do not equal the federal minimum hourly wage, the employer must make up the difference. Many states, however, require higher direct wage amounts for tipped employees.
So you hate the tipping culture but also hate people who want it abolished. That’s just beyond stupid.
I HATE EVERYONE
No, I hate the people who say they want it abolished and use that as an excuse to not pay their waiters. I made it plainly clear in my explanation, I honestly don’t know how to dumb it down for you anymore man.
Lol yeah the “I went to the restaurant but didn’t tip to teach everyone a lesson” is the same as “I voted for the third party to teach everyone a lesson.”
No, you gave the restaurant owner their profit and the employee nothing. You helped no one, you taught no lessons, and if we could harness your mental gymnastics as physical gymnastics we would have infinite renewable energy.
Since a lot of places require the employees be paid at least minimum wage including tips, it would impact the owner directly and immediately…if everyone stopped tipping.
Like not tipping is going to abolish anything. You walk in, pay the owner and leave the worker hanging. Why would the owner care?
It’s not like all the waiters can stay home waiting for something to change, people gotta live. Stop going to restaurants if you don’t want to tip
Why do you hate me for not wanting to tip, and not the employer who does not want to pay a living wage to it’s worker because the law does not oblige him to.
Why do you blame me and not the government who regulated the law to allow rich people to become more rich by having part of their salary expenses covered by the public?
This is a perfect example of privatizing the profits and socializing the losses
This makes 0 sense and isn’t worth replying to. It’s not really your fault though, your education system failed you.
You really showed me now, huh? Shame, I actually really thought you were the kind of person to clash viewpoints with and come out with something constructive after.
Nah, Redditwanderer is right. You’re pants shittingly stupid.
To be fair, that’s not the actual alternative for the waiter. The waiter either accepts their income as it is with some people not providing a tip, or they can opt for other employment like the rest of the workforce that isn’t tipped. They don’t have to sit at home waiting for things to change like helpless puppies.
I’m in California though so we don’t have any of that wage fuckery where they can be paid less than minimum wage if tips make up a significant portion of their income. It’s $17.55 hour minimum plus tips where I’m at.
I’d really rather see tipping outlawed along with all other obscured fees and just pay what you need to pay to have waiters and charge what you need to charge to have a business transparently printed on the menu.
Ahh yes other employment! How come nobody ever thought of that… Just get another job of course. Taxi driver don’t like their wage? Why dont they change jobs. Improper ppe? Just quit. Minimum wage at mcdonalds not livable? Change jobs bro. Bad / dangerous working conditions? You know it… Change jobs! Why do we even bother with oversight like OSHA when all construction workers need is to change jobs when things arent properly done. Contractors will figure it out eventually! California should do away with their pesky wage rules,“to be fair” they aren’t necessary, workers won’t be sitting at home waiting for it.
It’s so ridiculous of an answer ill go back to arguing with those who think they shouldn’t tip. We’d all prefer to see it outlawed.
It boggles the mind how someone can dismiss the legislation that enables the exact scenario the person they replied to described. Yes, the best solution is to have a reasonable minimum wage that isn’t modified by tips. Then you don’t have to leave your job, because they have to follow the law.
…or did you not bother reading past the first sentence?
Why do you assume the waiter is a she?
This place is just as toxic as reddit lol, it was a valid question.
Edit: and before people get confused by my username, I haven’t been back to reddit since the day RIF stopped working.
Oh dude just fuck off, gender is not important for the point.
Exactly, gender isn’t important. You could have done the convenient thing and they/themed the imaginary waiter. Why did you choose to go to the effort of assigning a gender when gender has nothing to do with your point?
Because it doesn’t actually matter what gender I used so I went with she and didn’t put much thought into it. I didn’t think people would be so soft headed as to actually give a shit because it isn’t relevant to the point at all. If I had said “he” nobody would have given a shit, something is wrong with y’all.
It’s not an attack, you don’t need to get so defensive. It just stood out to me.
Because serving is a female dominated industry where I am I guess?
So you’re maginalizating male service workers now? Are they less important?
Nobody is less important to me than you and your dumb ass opinion on the genders of waiters that has absolutely zero bearing on the point getting made.
Reminds me of that episode of Scrubs, where Dr Cox was going around with a tip jar, because if a guy pouring coffee gets a tip, he should get one from the people whose lives he saved.
“Why tip someone for a job I’m capable of doing myself? I can deliver food, I can drive a taxi, I can and do cut my own hair. I did, however, tip my urologist. Because I am unable to pulverize my own kidney stones.” -Dwight Schrute, “The Office”
Tips are commonly pooled
Depends on restaurant
Tips were only shared between FoH staff at the place I worked as a teen
I love that scene, you have a table of vicious killers and sociopaths, and even they’re disgusted at the idea of someone not tipping.
“The last thing you need, Mr Pink, is more coffee.”
Except the food cost is only a small part of what we are paying for at a restaurant. What we are paying for is the worker’s time and skills. We could, mostly, eat the same ingredients at home for much cheaper.
A lot of the other costs are small and make profit in scale.
In this case wouldn’t the cooks time and skills be more important? Almost anyone can carry a plate but it takes a more diverse set of skills to cook various meals in timely manner while trying to prepare another 10 orders as well.
Not to say the server isn’t important as well but tbh, I’d rather have shitty service and great tasting food than have amazing service and terrible food. Ideally great food and great service, that will defintely get me back.
You undervalue good service. Good service, like good cooks, keep people with allergies from dying. Who exactly do you think passes on the allergy information? In a more general manner, good service makes sure that your order is presented the the kitchen staff correctly and matches expectations when they say it’s ready. It’s not just about whether or not they have a pleasant demeanor.
I could get the best service I’ve ever had, if the food tastes bad, makes me sick, or is undercooked I won’t be returning.
I could have rude service, have to send my order back for being wrong, and maybe even wait a while, if that food is delicious I’ll be coming back.
It takes a whole team to run a restaurant but if the food sucks or is unsafe no amount of good service will make up for that.
tariffs
never mess with the people who handle your food.
