• Arelin@lemmy.zip
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    2 months ago

    Just as capitalist states are “authoritarian” against working class interests, socialist states are “authoritarian” against capitalist interests.

    The state is a tool for one class to oppress another. The goal of (most) communists is to transition from capitalism — where the capitalist class is in power — to a stateless, classless communist society via socialism — where the working class is in power.

    Public perception of which is more “authoritarian” therefore depends on which class is currently in power and is able to manufacture consent, and that is the capitalist class in the vast majority of the world right now since the USSR’s overthrow.

    • pingveno@lemmy.ml
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      2 months ago

      socialist states are “authoritarian” against capitalist interests

      The problem with this claim is that the USSR was quite authoritarian towards everyone. The Gulags were a place merely of political repression. Political jokes that are part and parcel of American late night comedy shows would get people harsh labor sentences during certain periods. The claim that this had to happen to protect the working class seems thin.

      • Ashtear@lemm.ee
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        2 months ago

        One regime’s political-dissident-by-speech is another’s dissident-by-drug-addiction. America’s “War on Drugs” was purely political disenfranchisement along racial lines, and it’s a major reason why the US continues to have higher incarceration rates than the USSR had in many of the years the Gulag system was operational.

        By the way, prison rape jokes have long been a part of those late night comedy shows, to give you an idea of just how ingrained the American prison culture is.

      • squid_slime@lemm.ee
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        2 months ago

        read the resent news of Julian Assange or John Pilger there’d be a lot more if i could think to name them

  • Alsephina@lemmy.ml
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    2 months ago

    With the USSR overthrown, virtually all mainstream media now is capitalist propaganda. And the capitalist class obviously would not want the working class to prefer a system where workers are in power.

    • xmunk@sh.itjust.works
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      2 months ago

      Being familiar with Bulgarian corruption, I’m going to confidently state that their percentages aren’t due to a rounding error.

      I was in Hungary last year and the nostalgia for communism is high and a significant portion of the population still remembers all the bad parts - Orban has really destroyed the social safety nets there and it hurts to see.

      • angel@lemmy.ml
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        2 months ago

        Hungary was also the best part of the Soviet Bloc to live in for the people.

        So it’s not just that modern Hungary is worse: communist Hungary is more miss-able than communist East Germany.

        Nigel Swain’s two books on the subject are good:

        • Collective Farms Which Work? (Cambridge: Cambridge University Press, 1985)

        • Hungary: The Rise and Fall of Feasible Socialism (London: New Left Books, 1992)

        He’s writing from the perspective of a non-red English academic who’s like… “wait… this works?? how do we explain the anomaly?”

        Hungary had full shelves, booming agriculture, available consumer goods.

    • Sagittarii@lemm.ee
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      2 months ago

      I’d also expect there’s more and more people propagandized by capitalist media in post-Soviet states as time has passed since capitalist bastards took it over. People who have not lived under socialism or experienced the massively decreased quality of life from the privatization forced on those countries.

      Though fortunately it seems like the Russian capitalists have not managed to succeed in this, with more and more people identifying with the USSR than the capitalist Russian Federation in recent years.

      Hard to do that at the heart of the revolution I guess. Maybe Russian communist parties could use that to become more revolutionary, specially with Russians able to see the stark difference between Russia under capitalism and China thriving under socialism. Doubt that’ll happen while Putin is in power though.

    • RedditWanderer@lemmy.world
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      2 months ago

      This graph is such bullshit. If you were being honest in your arguments there would be no need to alter the results of the study.

      This is the original graph - “About the same” answers were given directly to “worse”, fabricating results.

      This is the study. Despite their life “not being better” on average, they still conclude that Communism has its downsides and are in no way saying they want to go back to it.

    • PrivateNoob@sopuli.xyz
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      2 months ago

      Hungarian here. There reason for being the top 1 was because the country was running on debt hell for 10-15 years.

      Kádár (the ruler of that time) had promised from 1956 that he will improve the living standards. This worked until the 70s, when the oil crisis happened and Kádár realized that with those current living conditions, the country needs to get loans. So he did that until communism have ended.

    • Dkarma@lemmy.world
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      2 months ago

      But in practice communism ends up the same. The workers had no actual power under Communism. The leaders still took it all.

    • Crampon@lemmy.world
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      2 months ago

      They even had to build a wall to keep the capitalist working class outside of east Berlin.

      That Pew data is outdated. They have new data from 2019. Why did you post outdated and bad data to strengthen you belief?

      The latest research literally says conditions are better now for most people. Unless you hate homosexuals and women. Every metric indicate high standards of life and rights.

      I hate capitalism as much as the next person. But posting like you did is how we got Trump. Just faking everything till it happens.

      • RubicTopaz@lemmy.world
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        2 months ago

        “Bad data” is when you use data more representative of people who have actually lived under socialism and experienced the massive decline in quality of life, social welfare, housing, etc after capitalist bastards took it over and privatized everything for their profit

        • Crampon@lemmy.world
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          2 months ago

          Ye sure. No communist project has ever worked out because some people are by nature evil and hungry for power. Every communist regime has gone to shit because of it. Anyone hungry for power should be imprisoned because they are a danger to society. But most people rely on direction to function. It’s a double edged blade.

          Capitalism ruins everything in its path and communism eat it’s children. Welcome to the suck.

          • Cowbee@lemmy.ml
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            2 months ago

            The “muh human nature” argument is a fallacy, you do realize that, yes? People are products of their environment, in Capitalism greed and selfishness are rewarded, so you think the way people act in Capitalism is natural for all economic systems, lmao.

          • Zagorath@aussie.zone
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            2 months ago

            I don’t think that’s the right reason, though it does touch upon one of the biggest reasons.

            Communist projects have failed in no small part because of external interference from non-communist countries. Look at the US and their infamous “bringing democracy” around the world, for example.

            But they’ve also failed not because of innate human nature, but because some people’s nature is indeed what you describe. And unfortunately, violent revolutions have a tendency to make it very easy for those people take step in and fill power vacuums left in the wake of the former regime’s demise. Even if the ideals of many of the boots on the ground in the revolution was entirely well-meaning, the leadership might not be, either from the start, or as the revolution goes on. That’s why so many of the more famous communist regimes are incredibly authoritarian.

          • Woozythebear@lemmy.world
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            2 months ago

            Name me one communist regime and I’ll tell you why you’re a fucking idiot and don’t know the difference between communism and socialism.