• Pons_Aelius@kbin.social
    link
    fedilink
    arrow-up
    129
    arrow-down
    10
    ·
    11 months ago

    Wealth makes people more likely to be conservative, as does age.

    The poor young man who recorded Fuck tha Police is a very different person to the multi-millionaire media star being interviewed on Fox.

    • blargerer@kbin.social
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      69
      arrow-down
      2
      ·
      11 months ago

      Early trends for Millenials and young Gen X has them not getting more conservative as they are aging, or at least substantially less so than older generations.

          • Ser Salty@feddit.de
            link
            fedilink
            arrow-up
            2
            arrow-down
            1
            ·
            11 months ago

            I know this might not be relevant, but American obsession with dryers seems so weird to me lmao. I live in Germany and I’m not sure I’ve ever seen a dryer, even at my rich friends parents house, and them mafakers had a sauna in the basement. Just kinda interesting how they are completely culturally irrelevant in one country, and considered almost a basic necessity in another.

            • Peppycito@sh.itjust.works
              link
              fedilink
              arrow-up
              10
              ·
              11 months ago

              In my part of Canada without a dryer you’d have damp, moldy clothes 9 months a year. I could hang them up inside to dry but I’d be running a dehumidifier beside them. We lived without a dryer for several years but it made laundry an extra pain in the ass and drying was always the bottleneck. No problem in the summer months with the clothesline.

              • Ser Salty@feddit.de
                link
                fedilink
                arrow-up
                3
                ·
                11 months ago

                Yeah, I kinda suspected they were very useful/necessary in some parts and just spread to the rest because people move around a lot

                • AProfessional@lemmy.world
                  link
                  fedilink
                  English
                  arrow-up
                  4
                  ·
                  11 months ago

                  They are also, in the scheme of things, a very cheap and easy to install appliance (typically directly next to or on top the washer).

      • AstridWipenaugh@lemmy.world
        link
        fedilink
        arrow-up
        30
        arrow-down
        2
        ·
        11 months ago

        I believe it’s because there’s no reasonable conservative option. There’s nobody even pitching “fiscal responsibility” or “small government” anymore. You’ve gotta drink the Kool aid and support The Donald or you’re a liberal cuck. There’s no room for being just right-leaning; you’ve gotta go all in.

        • samus7070@programming.dev
          link
          fedilink
          arrow-up
          14
          ·
          11 months ago

          Gen Xer here, I’ve never seen a republican led federal government that ever actually acted fiscally conservative. Being fiscally conservative and small government has always meant cut social programs and cut taxes but never cut spending to one of the biggest cost centers in the government, the military. There’s nothing fiscally conservative about cutting taxes and ballooning the deficit. There’s nothing fiscally conservative about starting two wars and essentially putting them on credit cards. The American people only put up with them for so long because the only ones who had to sacrifice for them were those that died or came back maimed. If we had to pay for them with higher taxes instead of passing the bill to the next few generations, those wars would never have even happened.

        • Mirshe@lemmy.world
          link
          fedilink
          arrow-up
          3
          ·
          11 months ago

          That’s a good theory, as a lot of the people we see joining up for the right are usually either doing it out of spite/ironically (and eventually having the “be careful what you pretend to be” moment where it stops being ironic) or they’ve been grown and raised around these worldviews.

    • SkepticalButOpenMinded@lemmy.ca
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      17
      ·
      edit-2
      11 months ago

      Wealth yes, but the age thing might be a myth. It turns out that people solidify their political leanings during major movements. The older generation just happen to be affected by Reaganism and Nixons southern strategy.

      The most conservative leaning generation are not boomers or silver generation, but apparently Gen X.

      Edit: I posted some sources in replies below.

      • Rheios@ttrpg.network
        link
        fedilink
        arrow-up
        17
        arrow-down
        4
        ·
        11 months ago

        There also seems to be a bit of weirdness even surrounding what “conservative” means. It used to mean an intent toward preservation of certain existing institutions/trends and preexisting stability, with a distrust for new institutions that may upset existing social calm. Which often is at odds with beneficial change but isn’t inherently against it, favoring instead that it be slow and precise. When I think of myself as conservative that’s the concept I have.

        The problem is that “conservative” now can also include a group of people for which preserving an existing state (as in condition/mode of being ) is no longer acceptable, the demand either a reverse or entirely new directions.

        As an example that’s a little less hot button - vouchers for private schools. That’s an active novelty and a change from an existing institution, rife with potential long-term impacts on both culture and stability that could be negative, and yet some positions push for it (often without addressing those problems). That’s not a conservative position. That’s a progressive one (maybe not in the direction someone on the left would want obviously).

        Conservative got irrevocably linked with Right due to some preexisting social constructs and the urge to preserve them, but realistically it should hold just as well that a conservative would seek to preserve left-wing establishments as much as right-wing ones, or at least advise any changes to them be slow and incremental to avoid pop-up problems. Admittedly things like technology complicate that due to the speed with which it changes and demands response.

        • MotoAsh@lemmy.world
          link
          fedilink
          arrow-up
          16
          arrow-down
          6
          ·
          11 months ago

          If you cannot understand how conservatism would LOVE to conserve the racism and rapant capitalism of the US… You might not actually understand what “conservatives” actually want to conserve…

          It’s the social order of things where they’re on top. They’ve literally always been supremacists. Just not necessarily openly bigoted ones.

        • NotYourSocialWorker
          link
          fedilink
          arrow-up
          3
          ·
          11 months ago

          While I bet there’s exceptions what has been the general trend for conservative is that they are pleased with the status quo. They are on top and therefore don’t want things to change. When you’re not satisfied you tend to not be as patient. It also help to lack empathy for people not as lucky. Considering that you, commendably, can see the need for change you obviously belong to a different group.

          What is new is that the once who call themselves conservative now instead strive to change things due to a lack of control. They want to go back to the point where they feel they had control, power, and privilege over others.

          And when a group of people who lacks empathy want to take back power it can get dangerous very fast. Suck as January 6:th…

          • SkepticalButOpenMinded@lemmy.ca
            link
            fedilink
            arrow-up
            2
            ·
            11 months ago

            That polling you linked to looks pretty convincing actually. I might have to change my mind.

            I’ve seen the claim said a few times, here is the nytimes and there are many other sources discussing it (e.g. this Slate article and this Politico article, etc.). It also makes sense to me: Look at the January 6th insurrectionists. They aren’t young, but they aren’t boomers either. It was dominated by Gen X. Gen X got all the benefits of a social safety net, like cheap university, they got in on affordable housing, but also grew up at a time when even the “left” was represented by hyper capitalist Clinton. They didn’t have a Civil Rights movement, or Bernie Sanders movement.

            So I’m willing to change my mind, but I also find it plausible.

            • kescusay@lemmy.world
              link
              fedilink
              arrow-up
              3
              ·
              11 months ago

              I think it’s important to remember that the January 6th insurrection wasn’t representative across any demographics except extremely conservative Republicans and conspiracy theorists. Since generational analysis is already inherently problematic and inexact, I’d hesitate to make blanket statements about the entire age group based on a sample like that.

              It may be reasonable to say that in general, people in the age groups often lumped together in “Gen X” are statistically more likely to be conservative than younger people, but that’s about as far as I’d be willing to go.

              And the relatively low numbers of boomers at the insurrection may be explained more by their age than anything else. The absolute youngest boomers are turning 60 in the next year. The oldest are almost 80. Going and beating up Capitol police, scaling fences, and breaking into Congress may just be physically too demanding for most of them.

    • Jah348@lemm.ee
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      13
      arrow-down
      1
      ·
      11 months ago

      That was my first though.

      breaking news: impossibly wealthy people vote for tax cuts and reduction in social services

  • style99@kbin.social
    link
    fedilink
    arrow-up
    74
    arrow-down
    2
    ·
    11 months ago

    Dude. Ice Cube has always been “fuck you got mine.” People are only just now noticing?

    • FuglyDuck@lemmy.world
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      30
      arrow-down
      3
      ·
      11 months ago

      this. coming into money doesn’t change who you are. It magnifies who you’ve always been. Sure, people can change, but it isn’t the money doing it.

      • NotYourSocialWorker
        link
        fedilink
        arrow-up
        4
        ·
        11 months ago

        While I bet that it goes faster if you already lacked empathy there is research that indicate that coming into money makes you less empathetic.

        And then of course there’s also the exceptions, like Keanu Reeves and Brendan Fraser (from what I’ve heard at least).

        • FuglyDuck@lemmy.world
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          1
          ·
          11 months ago

          the change in empathy has more to do with the change in social circumstances than it does a change in personality. This is part of what I mean by it magnifies who you really are. You see, when you’re poor you need the help of others- be it welfare, or more social assistance (parents watching kids, etc) you need that help.
          So, you tend to give assistance with the expectation of social reciprocity.

          It’s social reciprocity at play here… when you become rich, you don’t need to rely on it, so you don’t. Epitomy of “Got mine, fuck you”

  • stergro@feddit.de
    link
    fedilink
    arrow-up
    49
    arrow-down
    2
    ·
    edit-2
    11 months ago

    A German Black rapper (Sam Deluxe) once said: “as a black person you can’t really choose your political opinion freely, because one side only wants you out of the country.” Many join the left because it means protection.

    I think parts of hiphop culture fits quite well to a conservative worldview when it comes to money, masculinity and the role of women.

  • S_204@lemmy.world
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    46
    arrow-down
    3
    ·
    11 months ago

    Ice cube is an anti Semitic piece of shit. Of course he siding with the Right, they’re anti Semites too.

  • AutoTL;DR@lemmings.worldB
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    15
    arrow-down
    1
    ·
    11 months ago

    This is the best summary I could come up with:


    Scrolling through Twitter a couple of weeks ago, I came across a clip of rightwing commentator Tucker Carlson interviewing a face I never thought I’d see on his platform: Ice Cube.

    He’s joining a long list of rappers – Kanye West, Da Baby, Kodak Black, Lil Pump – who have all put themselves in dangerous proximity to conservative politicians even as rightwing populism threatens to destroy their communities.

    Still, hip-hop legends like Jay-Z continue to peddle this demented lie because that is the very function of capitalism: keep the poorest in society busy providing cheap labor while they chase an impossible dream.

    Say what you want about Democrats and what they have or haven’t done for Black people in America, but Kanye West campaigning for Trump wasn’t some stroke of genius – it was one of the most self-hating and objectively stupid moves that a person in his position could have made back in 2016.

    I don’t blame Black people – burned by decades of generational disenfranchisement and then walloped over the head with the illusion of meritocracy – for trying to keep their place at the top no matter who they have to play nice with.

    But romancing fearmongering xenophobes isn’t keeping us at the top, it’s digging a pitiful hole to the bottom, a new low from which Black people as a community will not recover if we don’t put a stop to it now.


    I’m a bot and I’m open source!

  • C_Leviathan@sh.itjust.works
    link
    fedilink
    arrow-up
    15
    arrow-down
    2
    ·
    11 months ago

    Rich people and temporarily embarrassed millionaires and all that. Perfect victims for the right wing propaganda machine.

  • AnyProgressIsGood@lemmy.world
    link
    fedilink
    arrow-up
    18
    arrow-down
    10
    ·
    11 months ago

    I mean… Well I’ll start with I have a bit of a conspiracy theory

    So old white men ran the record industry when rap got hot. Clear channel and the top record companies can make anyone a star. Notice the over arching ideals and values they prop up

    Much like the CIA released crack on minorities. Record companies released drugs addiction, gang banging, spending frivolously via glamorization On minorities

    Always felt like minorities were being fed values that lead to failure. This is a continuation.

    • Obsession@sh.itjust.works
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      16
      arrow-down
      3
      ·
      11 months ago

      Or because many of these rappers came from poor and violent areas, where drug addiction, gang banging, and frivolous spending was what they knew

      • LucyLastic@sh.itjust.works
        link
        fedilink
        arrow-up
        19
        ·
        11 months ago

        Except that a lot of early and grass-roots rap railed against those things, but that wasn’t what got large scale commercial backing in the long run

      • AnyProgressIsGood@lemmy.world
        link
        fedilink
        arrow-up
        3
        arrow-down
        3
        ·
        11 months ago

        But why continue to sell destructive concepts to their people once they make it. But yeah it’s a conspiracy level thought.

  • OsrsNeedsF2P@lemmy.ml
    link
    fedilink
    arrow-up
    10
    arrow-down
    3
    ·
    11 months ago

    “Why have rappers who have always been edgey and anti-establishment supporting an edgey political party that (pretends to be) anti-establishment?”

  • banneryear1868@lemmy.world
    link
    fedilink
    arrow-up
    5
    arrow-down
    2
    ·
    11 months ago

    Because black people have varied political opinions, the notion of a single “black politics” is kind of racist. The income distribution between working class and top 10 percent of black people is very close to the income distribution between the same white classes.

  • Fuck Yankies@lemmy.ml
    link
    fedilink
    arrow-up
    10
    arrow-down
    97
    ·
    11 months ago

    I think it has to do with the fact that the left is actively hostile towards men, to the point where men go conservative.

    It’s one of those “it hurt itself in its confusion” type situations, and that’s coming from a leftist.

      • Fuck Yankies@lemmy.ml
        link
        fedilink
        arrow-up
        1
        arrow-down
        4
        ·
        11 months ago

        High rate of male suicide, high adoption of men in far right ideology. Why do you think that is? Because every other male than you is a weak specimen and you’re such a renaissance man?

        Also your statement was anecdotal and dismissive, so we’ll scratch the renaissance part.

        • brimnac@lemmy.world
          link
          fedilink
          arrow-up
          1
          ·
          edit-2
          11 months ago

          So you’re saying a high male adoption into far right ideology correlating with high male suicide shows…

          Democrats are to blame?

          You may want to get your logic chip checked out. No wonder you have these beliefs.

          Edit: and you trying to be toxic by insulting my manliness isn’t going to win any support for your cause.

      • plumbercraic@lemmy.sdf.org
        link
        fedilink
        arrow-up
        6
        arrow-down
        31
        ·
        11 months ago

        I mean, it’s not untrue either. Here 58% of the students who completed their masters degree last year are women, yet the vast majority of the gender quota based bonus points still go to women. And then there is a group that claims this is still not enough progress - it seems they are more interested in revenge than equality. So I can certainly see how some men get the impression that “the left is not for them”.

        • Flying Squid@lemmy.world
          link
          fedilink
          arrow-up
          20
          arrow-down
          5
          ·
          11 months ago

          I’m sorry… what? It’s the left’s fault that women are getting more masters degrees than men?

          Apart from anything else, isn’t that suggesting that men getting more masters degrees than women is some sort of natural state? I’d like evidence for that one.

          • plumbercraic@lemmy.sdf.org
            link
            fedilink
            arrow-up
            5
            arrow-down
            12
            ·
            11 months ago

            I’m sorry… what? It’s the left’s fault that women are getting more masters degrees than men?

            I didn’t say that. I said 58% of masters graduates here last year were women, yet the gender bonus points that favour women remain. I didn’t even say that I disagreed with that policy. But if we are going have such policies I don’t think we get to stand around and act confused when some men don’t feel welcomed by the left.

              • plumbercraic@lemmy.sdf.org
                link
                fedilink
                arrow-up
                4
                arrow-down
                11
                ·
                edit-2
                11 months ago

                They make it easier to get into university for certain genders where there is a historical imbalance of students in the subject. Men here get them for a couple of courses too: vets and nursing for example. But the vast majority of the bonuses are for women. The point wasn’t to debate this system, it was just to say that we shouldn’t be surprised that men feel alienated by such policies. (edit: especially in light of the recent graduate data)

                • 🐱TheCat@sh.itjust.works
                  link
                  fedilink
                  arrow-up
                  3
                  arrow-down
                  1
                  ·
                  edit-2
                  11 months ago

                  Why do people get hung up on academia when it’s statically likely you will make more money than women doing the same work?

                  ‘The thing that gives grades that don’t ultimately matter may be treating women better, we must fix it now!’ But you’re utterly silent about the pay gap, the all male presidential line up, the mostly male scotus, the mostly male ceo and government makeup.

                  To me it feels like such a bullshit argument? Why does it resonate? Is it just that these guys are super young and basically don’t get that previous generation of women were sexually harassed out of all the profitable professions, so now academia is trying to backfill?

                • Flying Squid@lemmy.world
                  link
                  fedilink
                  arrow-up
                  5
                  arrow-down
                  7
                  ·
                  11 months ago

                  So you’re saying addressing historical imbalances is a bad thing? Keep the white guys on top where they belong?

        • Dankry@lemmy.world
          link
          fedilink
          arrow-up
          44
          arrow-down
          2
          ·
          11 months ago

          Why is it that the right wing incel/MGTOW crowd can’t seem to ever come up with specific examples? It’s always vague nonsense like this.

        • Encode1307@lemm.ee
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          27
          arrow-down
          1
          ·
          11 months ago

          Yeah no problem with my liberal friends here. I don’t think it’s your gender causing your problems

        • czech@kbin.social
          link
          fedilink
          arrow-up
          22
          arrow-down
          2
          ·
          11 months ago

          That’s wild. I’ve never felt that way at all. Are you sure its because you’re male? What prompts your constant vilification?

        • Flying Squid@lemmy.world
          link
          fedilink
          arrow-up
          18
          arrow-down
          2
          ·
          11 months ago

          I cannot remember a time that anyone on the left was hostile to me for being male. On the other hand, I’ve been called things like “pussy” and “beta cuck” by people on the right just for my political positions and that seems a hell of a lot more hostile to my masculinity than anyone on the left has ever been to me.

          I think you’re just assuming that when people talk about patriarchy, they’re talking about maleness, which shows a total misunderstanding of the issue and the problem.

        • gmtom@lemmy.world
          link
          fedilink
          arrow-up
          17
          arrow-down
          1
          ·
          11 months ago

          I’m male and hang around exclusively left wing groups with very opiates feminists and I’ve never felt like I was out of place, hated, vilified or unwanted.

          Are you sure you’re not just being an argumentative asshole? Because if you take personal offense to things like male privilege being acknowledged and make comments like these, I can see why people might not wa to be involved with you.

        • AnonTwo@kbin.social
          link
          fedilink
          arrow-up
          17
          arrow-down
          2
          ·
          11 months ago

          I mean, this is just turning into a “he said, she said” sort of deal. What are they saying that you feel personally associates with and cannot be separated from being male?

          Personally I’ve never grown up feeling like people hated me just for being male, whether it was from the left or the right.

        • lingh0e@lemmy.film
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          10
          arrow-down
          1
          ·
          11 months ago

          Do you also take offense to white kids learning about Americas history of slavery?

    • kescusay@lemmy.world
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      61
      arrow-down
      3
      ·
      11 months ago

      and that’s coming from a leftist.

      That has some strong “fellow kids” vibes.

        • kescusay@lemmy.world
          link
          fedilink
          arrow-up
          1
          ·
          11 months ago

          I mean, you just pushed a ridiculous - and completely, stupidly untrue - myth about the left hating men, and then pretended to be a leftist to lend supposed credibility to that absurdity. What did you expect in response? A bunch of left-leaning men - like me - going, “Y’know, it’s true, I totally hate men” or something?

    • Zorque@kbin.social
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      32
      arrow-down
      2
      ·
      11 months ago

      There’s definitely a subset of people on the left who are outright hostile to men in general… but they’re a barely vocal minority. Anyone who leans right because of them was already halfway there, and was just using them as an excuse to dive headfirst instead of dipping a toe in.

      • MomoTimeToDie@sh.itjust.works
        link
        fedilink
        arrow-up
        2
        arrow-down
        5
        ·
        11 months ago

        I mean I see no reason not to paint the left with a broad brush based on their worst considering they’re chomping at the bit to do the same.

        • Zorque@kbin.social
          link
          fedilink
          arrow-up
          3
          arrow-down
          2
          ·
          11 months ago

          Even if that were true, what does that accomplish other than continuing a cycle of increasingly volatile reactionary aggression? Why not be the bigger person, unless you don’t actually want to better society and just want to be “right”.

          • MomoTimeToDie@sh.itjust.works
            link
            fedilink
            arrow-up
            1
            arrow-down
            4
            ·
            11 months ago

            Why not be the bigger person, unless you don’t actually want to better society and just want to be “right”.

            Because being the bigger person accomplishes exactly fucking nothing.

      • Fuck Yankies@lemmy.ml
        link
        fedilink
        arrow-up
        1
        arrow-down
        1
        ·
        11 months ago

        About what? About the sky high rate of male suicide, or the high rate of males going into far right ideology?

    • xerazal@lemmy.zip
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      11
      arrow-down
      1
      ·
      11 months ago

      I’m a man and a leftist.

      Wtf are you talking about lol. The left isn’t hostile towards men. They just aren’t hostile towards women, poc, lgbtq+, etc like the right are.