- cross-posted to:
- news@lemmy.world
- cross-posted to:
- news@lemmy.world
A revived legal dispute over a Christian music teacher’s refusal to use students’ preferred names and pronouns will offer an early test of the US Supreme Court’s new standard for religious accommodations in the workplace.
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They don’t realize that this opens them up to be called damn near anything the students want to call them.
Also, askong students what they prefer to be called predates the trans panic the idiots are experiencing. See, back in my day, someone named Gershwin Boyd Merryweather might be called Bubba by everyone that knows him. You call him Boyd, or Gershwin, or even Merryweather, he might not respond because that’s not the name his brain recognizes as meaning him. So the teachers were smart enough to ask students what they go by.
Hence me being called Mike in jr high chool despite not having the name michael at all because I gave up correcting teachers that couldn’t say my real name (which isn’t Mike or Michael lol). In high school, I just responded to call me sasquatch. That was what most of my friends had started calling me because I either look or smell like one (whuch depended on which friend you ask lol).
Believe it or not, other than my English teacher who could pronounce my traditional irish name correctly, and one old geometry teacher that said, and I quote “I will call you no such silly thing. Select another name, please.” everyone called me that in school after freshman year. The principal called me to the office by sasquatch once.
So, no, I don’t buy this bullshit at all.
And, even if it wasn’t bullshit whole cloth, it isn’t religious bullshit, because there’s nowhere in the fucking bible that says you can’t fucking be a decent human being and call people what they prefer to be called.
it’s a very different world since you graduated grandpa.
It is and it isn’t.
My point is that the whole objection the idiots are making is bullshit.
It was never a problem to use whatever name you wanted, regardless of what your school record listed until the whiny fucks wanted a excuse to fuck with trans/other kids and hide behind the veil of religious freedom.
It’s been a while since I read the Bible, but I remember a lot of emphasis on treating people you don’t like with love and compassion. I don’t remember anything in there prohibiting using someone’s name because it’s been changed.
Maybe this guy should read his book again.
Bold of you to assume he’s ever read it once.
I think the whole "love and compassion“ thing was just inaccurate marketing
Lol, you think Christians follow the bible or the teachings of Jesus? What world do you live in, because they gave up on pretending to follow that shit years ago and only use it as a cudgel for their bigotry.
12 years of Catholic schooling taught me that Jesus is just a name you can use to argue for shitty things and and use as an excuse to hate on people.
What I can’t stand about this is that you can justify any terrible behavior by saying “it’s part of my religion!,” even if there’s no evidence that the religion actually supports that behavior.
“Religious accommodations”, just another term for discrimination.
“If you object to me treating you like shit, you’re violating my constitutionally protected right of religious freedom. That’s offensive. I’m suing you.”
Of important note, Brownsburg Community School Corp is a public school district.
Refusing to call people what they want to be called is willful disrespect, in the case on the basis of the person’s gender identity. I have the perfect solution: Call this teacher, “Joni” John Kluge, by names and pronouns she doesn’t want to be called by.
They should refer to the teacher as “it/that.”
That’s not entirely accurate, though. You can easily imagine trolls demanding absurd nicknames. I’m not accusing anyone in this case of doing that, but it’s unreasonable to let children get any label they ask for. They may ask for genuinely horrific shit.
Given that Kluge is asking to call these students the same thing any news article would, their self-professed last name, and that they want to do it without singling out anyone on any basis, gender identity or otherwise, I would be inclined to agree with the courts that this case has more nuance to it than these cases usually do.
But Kluge is doing it for transphobic reasons, and should therefore be opposed and made to stop it.
Even if last names reads as reasonable, the teacher is doing it specifically to dispute the validity of their student’s genders.
Every time this teacher spits a gender-diverse student’s surname at them, they will hear the disrespect and poison it is dripping with and each time will bleed them baleful in the belly.
A person should not be permitted to harm a vulnerable person like that, especially if they are in a position of power and especially if they are a state employee.
Students have a right to their person and identity; no religion supersedes that right.
I don’t think you even need a transphobia argument; there’s a pretty clear case for basic discrimination by sex, which is much legally tighter. We all know that this teacher would have zero issues calling a James by Jimmy, or an Elizabeth by Liz. The teacher is refusing to allow a child to use a name of a given gender association purely because of the child’s sex.
And conveniently, this is the exact argument that Gorsuch used in banning workplace discrimination against queer people: it’s discrimination on the basis of sex to mistreat someone for dating or marrying a man solely because he is also a man.
I think I do need the transphobia argument, because transphobia is bad and it is good to argue against it. The fact “it could be fought with simple contract law if it had to be” not withstanding.
I’d amend your stance as well to “perceived sex”.
Oh for sure, and I’m not meaning to downplay the impact there. I’m speaking very strictly on the tightness of the legal argument.
“I have shown that this person is transphobic” may not necessarily convince a judge, whereas “I have shown that this person is discriminating on the basis of sex in blatant violation of Title IX” is a legal slam dunk.
Excellent points, and thank you for pointing them all out.
I think that a solution to the “troll problem” is to call their bluff, and call them what they want to be called (provided it’s not obscene or racist or otherwise improper for the school in question). Just as school kids can be excellent trolls to authority, they can be excellent trolls to each other, and I’d bet that other students referring to “Bob Smith” as “Meow-meow FuzzKitty” would get real old real fast. It might even demonstrate to Meow-meow what it feels like to be called something you don’t actually identify with. Or serving to normalize calling people what they want to be called.
but it’s unreasonable to let children get any label they ask for. They may ask for genuinely horrific shit.
Usually by little shitheads with MAGA parents. I occasionally inspect the containment instances and have seen more than a few people with neopronouns made out of slurs. People who underestimate the depravity of children are in for a rude awakening when a chinless doughball with a name like Brantlee Klansmyn Tyler insists he’s transracial and must be called “nigself” or his mom will sue the school board.
Any accommodation which requires a workplace accepts anti-trans hate or bigotry is by definition a substantial burden.
No workplace should be required to put up with shitheads nor scramble to counteract the harm they do to their guests, customers, and students, be they trans themself or simply decent people.
While I suppose the teacher could find a different job if it bothers them, I personally believe this teacher (and all transphobes) should be made to “say the pronouns!” at gunpoint, irrespective where they work (like that inspirational meme the right so oft posts).
