Being a criminal is also affected by ones social status so you’re pretty much contradicting youself here. I know what gang-related crime looks like as i was raised in a suburb with majority mena-immigrants along with having worked as a correctional officer to pay for my living situation while studying for my university degree. Jews were not part of that culture, because frankly they were quite hated in those parts of society. My statistics from the crime-prehentetive counsil in sweden mentions that it amounts for about a third of violent deaths, while the larger part of the rest is the second and third category. It might be lower in some areas in europe like portugal and maybe portugal don’t have many killed jews at all. I don’t agree with the metric because you can still be unsafe even if your life is not on the line consistently, but you might still be approached on the street, assaulted and fear terrorist attacks, which definitely have happened. Perhaps that is where our points of view differ to much to come to a common conclusion.
Keep in mind that being a criminal and being a victim of crime are not at all the same thing. To ascertain the safety of Jews in Europe being victims of violent crime is all that needs to be measured, quite independently of how many of them are criminals themselves.
Yeah, I openly admitted that social status changes ones likelihood of being a victim of crime (because it does and it was only fair to mention it since it might skew your results against the point you were making), and that has to do with living environments with high criminality even if not a criminal oneself: people from poor backgrounds are simply more likely to be victims of crime (the strong tend to prey on the weak).
You’re way over-extrapolating from your own experience, understandable since living in the environment that you describe would have left an indelible mark on a teenager and young adult. The situation you describe in Sweden is quiet different from, for example, The Netherlands or Italy were Organised Crime is far bigger and more dangerous than mere gang crime, and then again they’re all different from Portugal were there is very little in the way of murders other than the so-called “crimes of passion” (I doubt any Jew has been murderer in Portugal in decades, probably more than a century, purely because they’re such a small fraction of the population in a country which in terms of violent crime is the 4th safest in the World, so using Portugal for those numbers I asked from you would’ve yielded Statistically invalid results).
All of it is none the less irrelevant because, if Jews in Europe are dying at lesser rates than the rest of the population, no matter what the reason, they are de facto safe to live in Europe which disproves your statement that Jews are not safe to live anywhere [but Israel]. In the big maths of safety what counts is in how much danger one is, not the reason for that danger.
(Large amounts of anti-semitist violence would none the less in those number more than offset the safety enhancing factors for Jews in Europe such as, due to being well established, tending to be Middle class and hence safer than working class and poor people, whilst small amounts of anti-semitist violent would be hidden in the death toll by those other safety enhancing factors. The point is that the levels of anti-semitic violence - which I have no doubt exist in many if not most countries in Europe especially with large mena immigrant communities since those amongst them who are Racists will confuse Jews with Israel and blame the former as a group for the actions of the latter - seem to be very low and hence not enough to make Jews be less safe than the rest of the population).
In your last couple of posts you seem to have been trying to come up with excuses, so I can only conclude that the numbers you managed to gather following my suggestion of a, IMHO, reasonably independent metric do not show a higher rate of Jewish deaths than the rest of the population. None the less, your mind is set, understandable given the story you just shared of your experience as a Jew in Sweden of growing up in a neighborhood of mostly Middle Eastern and Northern African immigrants as my mind is set because I have only ever known Jews from Middle-class backgrounds in the countries I lived in, whose experiences were very different from yours and hence whose safety was far less at risk than yours seems to have been, plus as I said in those same countries I’ve had friends from many origins whose experiences were worse (in some cases far worse) than the experiences of my Jewish friends.
Lets agree to disagree, and I thank you for engaging with me on this in good faith.
I appreciated your well articulated responses. I was merely in my last posts trying to find something measureable and a definition of safe we can both agree on but as you say, lets agree to disagree. Lets hope everyone keeps safe in these times. Best of luck to you.
Being a criminal is also affected by ones social status so you’re pretty much contradicting youself here. I know what gang-related crime looks like as i was raised in a suburb with majority mena-immigrants along with having worked as a correctional officer to pay for my living situation while studying for my university degree. Jews were not part of that culture, because frankly they were quite hated in those parts of society. My statistics from the crime-prehentetive counsil in sweden mentions that it amounts for about a third of violent deaths, while the larger part of the rest is the second and third category. It might be lower in some areas in europe like portugal and maybe portugal don’t have many killed jews at all. I don’t agree with the metric because you can still be unsafe even if your life is not on the line consistently, but you might still be approached on the street, assaulted and fear terrorist attacks, which definitely have happened. Perhaps that is where our points of view differ to much to come to a common conclusion.
A few points:
All of it is none the less irrelevant because, if Jews in Europe are dying at lesser rates than the rest of the population, no matter what the reason, they are de facto safe to live in Europe which disproves your statement that Jews are not safe to live anywhere [but Israel]. In the big maths of safety what counts is in how much danger one is, not the reason for that danger.
(Large amounts of anti-semitist violence would none the less in those number more than offset the safety enhancing factors for Jews in Europe such as, due to being well established, tending to be Middle class and hence safer than working class and poor people, whilst small amounts of anti-semitist violent would be hidden in the death toll by those other safety enhancing factors. The point is that the levels of anti-semitic violence - which I have no doubt exist in many if not most countries in Europe especially with large mena immigrant communities since those amongst them who are Racists will confuse Jews with Israel and blame the former as a group for the actions of the latter - seem to be very low and hence not enough to make Jews be less safe than the rest of the population).
In your last couple of posts you seem to have been trying to come up with excuses, so I can only conclude that the numbers you managed to gather following my suggestion of a, IMHO, reasonably independent metric do not show a higher rate of Jewish deaths than the rest of the population. None the less, your mind is set, understandable given the story you just shared of your experience as a Jew in Sweden of growing up in a neighborhood of mostly Middle Eastern and Northern African immigrants as my mind is set because I have only ever known Jews from Middle-class backgrounds in the countries I lived in, whose experiences were very different from yours and hence whose safety was far less at risk than yours seems to have been, plus as I said in those same countries I’ve had friends from many origins whose experiences were worse (in some cases far worse) than the experiences of my Jewish friends.
Lets agree to disagree, and I thank you for engaging with me on this in good faith.
I appreciated your well articulated responses. I was merely in my last posts trying to find something measureable and a definition of safe we can both agree on but as you say, lets agree to disagree. Lets hope everyone keeps safe in these times. Best of luck to you.