Straws a literal drop on the ocean compared to what corporations are doing to the oceans.
I am happy to have paper straws if it helps the planet, but they chose the smallest thing they could do and as always put the onus on the consumers and not the producers.
They initially chose a thing that would have marginal impact on consumers’ behaviour, yes. Starting in October 2023, people will no longer be able to buy plastic cutlery, plates, bowls, trays, balloon sticks, and other items.
Which items would you nominate for an immediate ban in addition?
Regarding consumers v producers - they literally just stopped producers selling this stuff. What do you mean?
I would shift the onus on the people buying the shit (consumers) to the people making it (producers).
Maybe we could look at fishing nets, plastic bottles etc.
To be clear I am all for doing more for the planet but I take issue with the blame being misplaced on consumers when the producers are polluting orders of magnitude more than we are.
Whether a producer is prohibited from producing or selling has zero affect on the UK consumer. I agree that a ban on production would be good, but in the vast majority of cases these are overseas producers, so that can’t be legislated for.
I very much doubt that there are any products being imported - because they can’t be sold - so no need to regulate that.
The only thing I can see where a ban on production would help with is if the UK was home to a big manufacturer-exporter of straws etc. But that doesn’t seem very likely.
Appreciate thr discussion and happy to have my position changed if I’m on the wrong track
why do you think the producers are producing these things? Because consumer demand. If we stopped purchasing these things, they wouldn’t produce them. They only produce them because that’s where the money is.
The majority of consumers giving a shit about anything that doesn’t affect them.
Stopping the production of things we actually don’t want people to buy anymore.
It’s much easier to regulate a handful of companies than it is to educate several billion people and try and get them to change buying habits.
That’s like excusing a serial killer because victims are plentiful. You wouldn’t blame the victims and tell them to stay away from serial killers. You would punish the serial killer no?
Straws a literal drop on the ocean compared to what corporations are doing to the oceans.
I am happy to have paper straws if it helps the planet, but they chose the smallest thing they could do and as always put the onus on the consumers and not the producers.
They initially chose a thing that would have marginal impact on consumers’ behaviour, yes. Starting in October 2023, people will no longer be able to buy plastic cutlery, plates, bowls, trays, balloon sticks, and other items.
Which items would you nominate for an immediate ban in addition?
Regarding consumers v producers - they literally just stopped producers selling this stuff. What do you mean?
I would shift the onus on the people buying the shit (consumers) to the people making it (producers).
Maybe we could look at fishing nets, plastic bottles etc.
To be clear I am all for doing more for the planet but I take issue with the blame being misplaced on consumers when the producers are polluting orders of magnitude more than we are.
Stopping a producer selling it in a country is putting the onus on the producer.
I don’t think the narrative of producer v consumer is particularly helpful. Any regulation that hits the producer will also hit the consumer.
I’d be all for a ban on plastic bottles, but you need proper glass bottle deposit schemes in place first
I think it is helpful.
Consumers can only buy what’s on the shelves. If we limit production then the former isn’t an issue.
Whether a producer is prohibited from producing or selling has zero affect on the UK consumer. I agree that a ban on production would be good, but in the vast majority of cases these are overseas producers, so that can’t be legislated for.
Then wouldn’t we regulate the imports.
No Asda you can’t import from X because they do Y?
Not trying to argue here, just want to be more informed.
I very much doubt that there are any products being imported - because they can’t be sold - so no need to regulate that.
The only thing I can see where a ban on production would help with is if the UK was home to a big manufacturer-exporter of straws etc. But that doesn’t seem very likely.
Appreciate thr discussion and happy to have my position changed if I’m on the wrong track
How much less talking about the consumers responsible is appropriate? Or do you think people shouldn’t talk about it at all?
why do you think the producers are producing these things? Because consumer demand. If we stopped purchasing these things, they wouldn’t produce them. They only produce them because that’s where the money is.
Which is more likely.
The majority of consumers giving a shit about anything that doesn’t affect them.
Stopping the production of things we actually don’t want people to buy anymore.
It’s much easier to regulate a handful of companies than it is to educate several billion people and try and get them to change buying habits.
That’s like excusing a serial killer because victims are plentiful. You wouldn’t blame the victims and tell them to stay away from serial killers. You would punish the serial killer no?