Itt liberals reveal that their is no depth of casual fascist bloodthirst they won’t plumb. Pretending to care about Ukranians while they cheer for them getting rounded up and used as meatshields in a lost war.
The western supremacists are willing to sacrifice every Ukranian civilian, to push NATO east.
I think that most is against poor Russians dying in the same way, in the same lost war
lol no they aren’t; they spent the last year calling Russians orcs and celebrating their deaths; don’t give libs the benefit of the doubt; they’re warping into modern day Nazis.
They applauded an SS veteran!
Bruh when it came out he was an SS veteran, for that first week they tried to make it seem like no big deal; I’m not gonna forget that!
Holy shit I let myself forget that fucken hell
Exactly, the only reasonable and humane position is to end the bloodshed with diplomacy immediately
Have you seen Raytheon stock price ? Not a chance ! With Russian blood this cheap.
their casualty ratio is very low, ranging from 10:1 to 20:1. also they have enough volunteers atm where they don’t need to force people to fight.
@poVoq@slrpnk.net how many more Ukrainians are going to have to be murdered by the regime for you to be happy?
You’re finally admitting that the Russian invasion is murder?
I’m talking about the murder of people who are being gang pressed into fighting by the fascist regime the west installed and people like you support.
Isn’t umm fighting against invasion is required by law for most countries?
Weird way to justify people being forced to fight into something they clearly don’t believe in or have any interest defending.
Sadly law isn’t arbitrary
law has nothing to do with morality
That’s wildly incorrect lol
Let’s not forget that most countries also have constitutions. The citizens constitutional rights cannot be overshadowed by draft. Therefore forcible totalitarian draft is not legal. Here it’s problematic because sovereign legal institutions are non existent in Ukraine and lets admit that in many states legal institutions would crumble when defending citizens rights against violent governments.
do you admit ukrainian shelling of the breakaway republics was mass murder? or do they not count bc they speak the wrong language?
They were trying to prevent the slaughter of ethnic Russians in the independent republics. Also stop the continual acts of terrorism coming from the CIA controlled SBU (there’s a NYT article about this subject FYI)
Every man who gets away stays alive to rebuild later. Every man who gets caught extends the war and dies for nothing.
It’s super hard to get away now…
Zelensky’s regime may have troubles with keeping the eastern border safe, but the western one is defended like no other (that is, from people trying to escape of course).
And the bribes to get out legally are more than 10k$… For lots of us (especially for people living in villages) this is an amount of money we’ve never seen in a lifetime.
we had to use coyotes when we left mexico for the united states and that experience has left my entire family in desperate need of psychological counseling for the last 5 decades.
my heart breaks for the people who have to do something similar.
Use coyotes?
it’s the american and mexican nickname for people who smuggle people across the border for money.
coyotes usually learn their craft by being part of the drug cartels; so the people who pay the money are also commonly kidnapped by the coyotes for ransom money from the family and they’re killed if the family doesn’t pay.
children are especially lucrative for them.
Jesus christ, I should have guessed. I thought you somehow took used coyotes(the animeal) to cross the border and was honestly curious as to how. I hope everything ended up okay for y’all, sorry you had to experience that.
i’ve been getting the help i need thanks to believing in medical science and psychotherapy.
my older family members and my science denying family members are the ones who need the sympathy because they will never seek the help they need and/or continue to put their faith into their orange jesus or a bottle to make themselves feel better.
There’s still a nightlife in Kyiv? The war there is worlds apart from what’s happening in Gaza. Gaza hasn’t had electricity or water for a year now.
That’s not a war though, it’s a genocide
Every now and then people like to conflate the Gaza situation with the Ukrainian one. Both are very unfortunate and sad, but one is waaaay worse.
It was not unlike until 2022 (though still much worse for Palestine), but unlike Palestine, Donbas did got help.
I can 1000% guarantee you that if Iran or Iraq or Egypt invaded Israel in defense of Palestine all the antiwar libs who currently mildly criticize genocide would be frothing their mouths terminal rabies islamophobic and zionist now.
The genocide of palestinians is no war
Russia isn’t targeting civilians. Also in Ukraine they draft poor people to die
Remember when the libs here were saying only Russia does this and acting like it was beyond the pale?
I do because it was yesterday.
@yogthos @TheOubliette that’s a symptom of supporting “the next thing” that the propaganda machine tells you 🤣
soon the libs will be explaining to us how the war with Iran is the war we all needed
Huh that’s gotta be the highest upvoted article critical of Ukraine regime i seen here.
Either libs are already in the inevitable process of transforming from “kill ruZZian orcs” to “we never supported that war” or we are just out of peak hours for lib brigades.
It really isn’t that far of a reach to support ukraines fight for sovereignty but also detest forced conscription.
It’s not one or the other.
Ukraine lost its sovereignity in 2014. Nuland was even handpicking their govt, you don’t get less sovereign.
It really isn’t that far of a reach to support ukraines fight for sovereignty but also detest forced conscription.
You can always go volunteer
No! Two things are never allowed to be true at the same time!
Workers, hearken, they are going to war
And they yell: “For nation and race!”
This war is the rulers of the world’s
Against the working classes!
Hanns Eisler in “Der Heimliche Aufmarsch”
(works for both sides ngl)
@yogthos For any western liberal that is cheering on this bloodshed on behalf of Western capitalist powers, I invite you to jump on a plane and pick up a rifle.
This conflict has only two outcomes. A peace deal through negotiations as with any war in history, or WWIII.
Sadly, the American stance “we will fight Russia down to the last Ukrainian” is the reality. Once the smoke clears, if there was a victory, it will be the property of Western interests like Black Rock.
Seriously, wish all these people would just sign up for the foreign legion and put their money where their mouth is.
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I think Israel is the only entity that is doing basically everything possible to kick-start WWIII. As the Ukraine/Russia stuff is mostly being contained to Ukraine, Donetsk, Luhansk, Crimea, and parts of Russia. But Israel is openly starting new fronts in Palestine and Lebanon. Along with attacking Iran, Syria, and Yemen. And they are most certainly the most likely entity to be the next government to use nukes in war. The doctrine of kill everyone to not allow capture is far more scary than what has been going on in Ukraine.
Not to say that the forced conscription and arrests of draft aged (or even physically able) men isn’t fucked (it very much is). But even the neo-Nazis in command of Ukrainian forces aren’t taking that level of official doctrine of death to their own side. Their doctrine is more “you fight or die” (but not "we will also kill you if you are caught by the enemy) which isn’t exactly “shocking” if a nation is on an actual defense from inside their borders. Israel is invading other nations and acting at more of an ISIS level of fucked up while yelling about how they are “just defending ourselves.”
Ukraine isn’t defending shit. They murdered tens of thousands in the independent republics and continue to this day shell that land that MSM says they are “defending”.
Y’all are fucking clowns for defending the Russian invasion of Ukraine and saying that Ukrainians should just give up.
How about all the Russians getting forced in to a war just to die? Where is the criticism of Putin and his regime and the atrocities that he commits? Oh, that’s right, it doesn’t fit the narrative that mother Russia is superior to everyone else and deserve to take Ukrainian land.
It’s pretty obvious that you’re just fascist. It’s going full circle in here.
Fucking clowns 🤣 Clowns living in a clown world is what you are 🤡🤡🤡
Y’all fucking clowns for defending the fascist regime you support dragging people to fight for your entertainment. Go sign up for the foreign legion already instead of trolling here.
Lmao, I am not the one defending a fascist dictator and his regime trying to take over a foreign country, sending their men to a certain death 🤣 get your head out of your ass you clown 🤡🤡🤡
The fact that you don’t know that you are makes you even more of a clown.
and saying that Ukrainians should just give up.
I’ll try to argue in good faith and ask you - what evidence (other than this post, apparently it doesn’t convince you) would be needed for you to admit that we don’t want to fight, and it’s Zelensky’s regime (with West’s support) that forces us to (and effectively genocides us)?
How about all the Russians getting forced in to a war just to die?
It’s also bad. Russia is not turned into a mass prison which people can’t leave and where they are kidnapped on the streets though, Ukraine is.
A man in Russia can leave at any moment.
A man in Ukraine is automatically a prisoner, he can only escape.Where is the criticism of Putin and his regime and the atrocities that he commits?
Here it is: I condemn Putin for the atrocities he commits. I regularly hear from my friends and family, who are still in Ukraine, about Russian rockets/drones flying over them.
You see, I’ve tried to argue in good faith with you, despite you supporting Zelensky’s fascist regime that tries to kill me and people I know. Now, can you do the same? :)
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You didn’t answer my question “what evidence (…) would be needed for you to admit that we don’t want to fight, and it’s Zelensky’s regime (…) that forces us to (…)” :(
Putin is trying to take your homeland and you’re doing nothing to prevent it.
What do you mean “take”?
What prevents me from living on the land Putin has taken?
Or let’s be more exact - what prevents people in Crimea, Melitopol and other cities/regions taken by Putin to continue living there?
Or maybe you want to say that the life there is worse? Then please define in what way. Is it being able to freely move? Is it not being a subject to mass kidnappings? Is it being able to speak your mother tongue without being discriminated for it (or worse…)? Is it being able to form political parties? Is it being able to vote for your president (even if you consider the elections rigged)?You’re not even in your own country…
I cannot return there, until Zelensky’s regime is done. If I go there - I won’t be able to come back. I’ll be imprisoned like the rest of the country. I’ll be sooner or later kidnapped and sent to die.
Who should fight for their freedom if not the people that live there?
Fighting for freedom is fighting against Zelensky’s regime, he is the one taking the freedom away. And it’s extremely hard to fight him, as long as he has western support.
I am against both sides, both states are braindead agents of Moloch. Dissolve the state meme. The is now Russia there is no Ukraine, these are just deadly brain rot.
How about all the Russians getting forced in to a war just to die?
Just to clarify: do you suggest to murder everyone who was forced to get onto the battlefield, or do you mean Putin does this to them?
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Ah yes, those US/UK/European/Ukrainian news media with their Russian propaganda… Damn Russian propaganda, nothing is safe from it :(
nice hasbara
mother Russia is superior to everyone else and deserve to take Ukrainian land.
Are you seriously getting your viewpoints about what Russia wants…FROM THE CIA? that’s fucking insane. Here’s what you should do. Find any translation of any spokesperson of Russia. Two famous ones are Lavrov and Maria something. Both of them are very intelligent and speak clearly.
edit: Also Russia doesn’t target civilians. There’s a thing that’s commonly used by the US and Israel called atrocity propaganda. Look it up. Russia is taking casualties but it’s not that much. It’s approximately 1 death to 20-30 Ukranian deaths ATM.
Some people dug too deep into the reality tunnel, any common sense has been left far behind.
Obvious reality check: Ukraine has some nazies. Also
a) they’re not their top problem. That being, you know, invasion and occupation by an authoritarian dictatorship.
b) point me at the country that hasn’t. What, you want China to invade Germany because AfD has 30% in some provinces? Let people sort their shit before you call for a foreign boot ffs.
(Not even touching the fact that the only reason Russia isnt seig heil’ing right this second, is that little Pu is afraid of any popular movements, including fascism. But it’ll get there, give it a couple years and/or heart strokes)
Dude. We (the US) couped Ukraine in 2014. They’ve been killing tens of thousands of their own Russian-speaking civilians in the two independent republics. We have created THEIR CIA (SBU) and they perform acts of terrorism on Russia, at least try to, on at LEAST a monthly basis. Denazification means elimination of Banderaist factions in the gov who can essentially tell their president what to do backed by threats of violence.
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Lol just statist things.
Just today Zaluzhnyi (ex AFU Commander-in-Chief) said that if needed, they will start mobilizing (so kidnapping from the streets, etc.) women too.
And then it finally going to be a proper, total genocide of Ukrainians…
I am sure there are no red lines for Zelensky’s regime now… He can start murdering kids, and it will be met with western applause…
Humanity’s favourite past time to trying the best to rip each other apart in any ways. On the battle fields of war but also in a comment section. It is hilarious to watch.
That’s one take. Recently a bigger focus has been on how these men are avoiding their duties as citizens to protect their country, way of living and freedom. But draft dodging is fine from a pacifist point of view.
Better that than being lured into a war as the Russians do.
Edited to way of living to help the literally ones
If you’re not ready to protect life and freedom by getting blown up within a week of arriving at the front in an unwinnable war you’re a bad person.
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You’re a living meme lmao
Who mentioned Korea?
I did
bigger focus has been on how these men are avoiding their duties as citizens to protect their country, lives and freedom
How would they be protecting their lives by going into a war zone? And if their freedom was important they wouldn’t be getting pressed into service; as for protecting their country, no one cared that they were shirking that responsibility when they allowed Azov militia members to kill ethnic Russians (who identified as Ukrainian until they were being ethnically cleansed) without defending that part of their country. Why weren’t Ukrainians defending that part of the country?
When you say freedom, what do you mean? Freedom to do what? You’re talking about a place that under capitalist restoration became the poorest country in Europe and (as is tradition) uses ethnic violence to divide its working class that might otherwise kill its rulers. I’m thinking a lot of the population might not feel they actually have the freedom to actually do a whole lot. Some of them seem to want the freedom to continue living, or the freedom to not fight in a NATO proxy war, but you don’t seem to care about those freedoms. So, again, what are you talking about?
ITT people that claim they hate trump have the same opinion on one of the biggest political issues for the same reason, they love Russian expansion.
Liberals don’t understand words, only tone example 900028261
Ok, but like realistically what do you think the outcome in this war is? Do you think there is a realistic path forwards in which Ukraine beats Russia?
If your answer to that is yes, then I don’t know what to say to you. Ukraine is getting overrun by material and people from its much larger opponent. The only way to tip that balance is the rest of nato going hot(er) and joining the war and then we have ww3 - which I hardly need to point out the devastating consequences of for the whole world.
If your answer to that is no, then what does conscription of men and the continuation of the war achieve? Other than greater suffering, death and destruction. How can that be good? I don’t want Russia to win per-say, this is a brutal war between two reactionary powers. But I do wish for all the civilians in the affected area that the war stops, so their children will stop being killed in the collateral and they can stop sacrificing their sons and fathers to the meat grinder. It is clear that Ukraine isn’t winning so the path to peace is Russia wins.
Russia winning is the most good realistic outcome.
I’d love to see a response to this, but then they’ve probably had an aneurysm
Stop it Bobby, if those liberals could parse information they’d be very upset.
You say, every small country should all just let their bigger neighbours get control over them without a fight, because “tHiS wAr Is aLrEAdy LoST”?
Russia makes military fail after military fail and achieve no land except some useless corn fields. But “tHeY aRe the 2nd stRoNgEst mIliTary”. While they take tanks out of museums because all their toys get humiliated by drone swarms.
🤷🏻 but I guess you with your opinion (like me with mine) do not change the sad stuff that is happening
You say, every small country should all just let their bigger neighbours get control over them without a fight, because “tHiS wAr Is aLrEAdy LoST”?
I literally did not say that. In fact nothing of what you’ve put in quotation marks is a quotation of mine. Truly you have a beautiful mind. I very much doubt you really care about other nations territorial integrity, in the way your argument seems to suggest, as I doubt you’re making the same arguments when America or other nato aligned nations invade other countries.
Regarding Russian military successes and failures, I think there have been heavy losses on both sides, and major humiliations on both sides. However given that Russia controls nearly a fifth of Ukraines territory and that number is going up not down, I’d suggest that they’re doing ok in terms of land gains. Which isn’t even the main objective of Russia in this moment who have pivoted to a war of attrition, which they will certainly win.
So back to my previous point, what do you think is going to happen? And given the inevitable conclusion, why do you want to promote the war in which you will be sending thousands of Ukrainians (and indeed Russians) to a futile death?
No invasion is never good, not from IS not from russia not from china not from Israel not from germany and not from korea (both sides) as examples
I don’t really pick general sides, but with an invasion, for me, it is clear that the invading party is generally the bad guy
There was nearly no loss nor gains of Landmasses within Ukrine for over a year now, but since Ukrine got their fighter jets, they took some Russia land, apparently.
To try predict the future, I think Ukraine’s Plan to get more and more of Russia land in order to trade all lands back as they were before war, may work, given the NATO (especially US) keeps on giving the weapons and ammunition to Ukraine.
Ahh yes, history always begins on the day of the invasion. The western allies were wrong to invade France on D-Day as being the invader is always bad. There is never any preceding events that may give light to the motives of the attacker. For good or for bad. Libs ‘consider world events not just on in the moment vibes’ challenge: impossible.
There being no losses or gains in Ukraine is because Russia has changed its tactics, they’re now grinding it out until Ukraine collapses totally due to lack of material and manpower, not going for territorial gains. Despite this they’re still making strategically important gains in Ukraine. You know Russia has reclaimed a quarter of that land in Kursk back already don’t you? Also that it is a tiny region of land they claimed in the first place, 300 down from 400 square miles. Your vision of the future where Ukraine takes huge swaths of Russia and trades for occupied Ukrainian lands is never going to happen.
A invasion in answer of a recent invasion to reclaim the land back is nit making you the bad guy.
Ukraine did not invade Russia.
And to the second part, so to your logic, every country that is weaker than a neighbour should just let them in taking all the land?!
Ok so you do accept that history can provide legitimate motives for an event?
Ukraine did not invade Russia
Cmon you’re almost there, one nations invasion isn’t the only thing that could justify another nations invasion. Other acts of violence across the border of another nation could be legitimate grounds for an invasion too.
And to the second part, so to your logic, every country that is weaker than a neighbour should just let them in taking all the land?!
Again, I literally did not say that, that’s your logic not mine. I don’t believe in nations full stop. It’s a very dumb concept that seeks to divide and control. I believe all nations should be dissolved and we should all live in stateless queer communist paradise.
But…
How I think the world should be is irrelevant. What I believe other countries should and shouldn’t do is irrelevant. This is idealism. Idealism is nonsense.
The only thing that matters is the material reality of a situation. The material reality is nations exist. Nations use violence to further their interests. Some nations are stronger than others. Some nations band together in defensive pacts to prevent aggression from larger neighbours. Some strong nations band together in pacts to assert their will and control over weaker nations and dole out violence with impunity. Whether anyone should or shouldn’t do these things is neither here nor there, the simple fact of the matter is that they do engage in these actions, therefore what matters is how you react to the current situation. And the material reality of the Ukraine war, as it is right now, is that Ukraine will lose and Russia will win. So what is your desired course of action given the existing material reality?
Behold the incredible depths of liberal analysis.
Understanding so shallow you need Low-angle X-ray Diffraction to quantify it
