An artist who infamously duped an art contest with an AI image is suing the U.S. Copyright Office over its refusal to register the image’s copyright.

In the lawsuit, Jason M. Allen asks a Colorado federal court to reverse the Copyright Office’s decision on his artwork Theatre D’opera Spatialbecause it was an expression of his creativity.

Reuters says the Copyright Office refused to comment on the case while Allen in a statement complains that the office’s decision “put me in a terrible position, with no recourse against others who are blatantly and repeatedly stealing my work.”

  • SzethFriendOfNimi@lemmy.world
    link
    fedilink
    arrow-up
    19
    arrow-down
    2
    ·
    edit-2
    2 months ago

    It has to be fixed in a tangible medium.

    In this case they’re not “fixing” their words and the final art is the created expression. Yet in this case their created expression wasn’t created by them but the program.

    In this case their combination is the palette and paint but the program “interpreted” and so fixed it.

    For example you can’t copyright a simple and common saying. Nor something factual like a phone book. Likewise you can’t copyright recipes. There has to be a “creative” component by a human. And courts have ruled that AI generated content doesn’t meet that threshold.

    That’s not to say that creating the right prompt isn’t an “art” (as in skill and technique) and there is a lot of work in getting them to work right. Likewise there’s a lot of work in compiling recipes, organizing them, etc. but even then only the “design” part of the arrangement of the facts, and excluding the factual content, can be copyrighted.

    • tyler@programming.dev
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      5
      arrow-down
      2
      ·
      2 months ago

      In general these art pieces are not created simply with words. Users control the output using ControlNet which allows drawing on the image to force regeneration only to specific areas. It seems that if your only logic around it being non-copyrightable is due to them using words and that the program “does it all”, but that’s just not how it works.

      I’m not in favor of copyrights for stuff like this, but you have a terrible misunderstanding of how these art pieces are created and it’s affecting your argument negatively.

    • chemical_cutthroat@lemmy.world
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      8
      arrow-down
      8
      ·
      2 months ago

      You cannot copyright a recipe, but you can copyright the product it produces, as evidenced by the wealth of food and drinks that are protected by law from being copied.

      Can a person who works with wood and creates something unique from the wood then copyright their design crafted from the wood? What makes it art and not just glue, iron nails, and dead trees? This is what needs to be defined with AI. Right now everyone is so happy to jump on the anti-AI bandwagon that they blind themselves to issues regarding the law by claiming the art is lawless at best and stolen at worst, when in fact it is simply a new tool and a new medium.

      Did authors who used typewriters rail against the new word processor? What about the editor that checked for grammar and spelling? Did they try to burn down spell and grammar checks in microsoft word? Is the art any less art if it has been created with a tool that allows for more ease than has been available in the past? Should we boycott the bakers that do not mill their own wheat? Or does the sourdough bread belong to the wild yeast cultures, and so owed recompense for all we have taken from it?

      The argument can be made until the universe burns out, or we can accept that art is made by sentient life, and any tool used in the production of it cannot be considered an owner of that art, and if the only sentient lifeform involved in the creation of that art wishes to claim it as their own, then they should have the right to protections for their work.

      • FlowVoid@lemmy.world
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        12
        ·
        2 months ago

        you can copyright the product it produces, as evidenced by the wealth of food and drinks that are protected by law from being copied.

        No, you can neither copyright a recipe nor the food or drink it produces.

        Food and drink is only protected by trademark law. You are free to make a burger that tastes exactly like a Big Mac, you simply can’t call it a Big Mac.

        • chemical_cutthroat@lemmy.world
          link
          fedilink
          arrow-up
          2
          arrow-down
          6
          ·
          2 months ago

          And you can take a photo of some natural rock formations on black and white film stock, but you can’t take Ansel Adam’s photo of natural rock formations on black and white film stock. This is what the artist is suing for. He wants to claim ownership of his work, which I believe falls under copyright law, just like Ansel Adam’s photos.

          • FlowVoid@lemmy.world
            link
            fedilink
            English
            arrow-up
            6
            arrow-down
            1
            ·
            edit-2
            2 months ago

            Ansel Adams has a copyright because of the creative control he had over his photos, such as in lighting, perspective and framing.

            Artists generally cannot copyright AI output because they do not have a comparable degree of creative control. Giving prompts to an AI is not sufficient.

              • FlowVoid@lemmy.world
                link
                fedilink
                English
                arrow-up
                6
                arrow-down
                2
                ·
                edit-2
                2 months ago

                If this is an actual photograph, then you can copyright the lighting, perspective, and framing of the photo. Anyone can make an image with the same model though.

                If this is AI generated and you directed the AI to change the lighting and perspective, then no you still can’t copyright any of it. Giving direction is not the same as having control.

                • chemical_cutthroat@lemmy.world
                  link
                  fedilink
                  arrow-up
                  4
                  arrow-down
                  6
                  ·
                  2 months ago

                  Ok, lets do it with some of my actual work, then. One of these is the original photo I took, another is black and white, and the other has had some color added. When I took the original photo, I controlled everything about it. However, the edits were done in lightroom, where I asked the computer to change the color and to desaturate. I didn’t go in, pixel by pixel, and change things. I didn’t shoot on different film. I used a tool. Do I still own those photos? It seems like we are struggling over what is and isn’t a tool, and whether tool assisted art is still art.

                  • FlowVoid@lemmy.world
                    link
                    fedilink
                    English
                    arrow-up
                    6
                    ·
                    edit-2
                    2 months ago

                    In your edited photos, a judge can point to any part of the photo and ask, “In this particular part of the photo, why is there this particular hue?” And you can answer, “Because I desaturated it or I adjusted the tone curve or I snapped the photo when I saw that hue in the viewfinder”. There is no possibility that 100% desaturation can result in any color other than grayscale. There is no possibility that a desaturation slider will sharpen the image instead of desaturating it. You know what will happen every time you make an edit. That’s creative control.

                    In an AI generated photo, at some point the prompter will answer “Because that’s what the AI produced after my prompt, and I accepted the result”. In other words, in some parts of the image the prompter could not predict what the result of a prompt would be, but they approved of the result after the fact. It’s entirely possible that a prompter could get unexpected results from their prompt. That’s direction, not creative control.

      • SzethFriendOfNimi@lemmy.world
        link
        fedilink
        arrow-up
        9
        ·
        edit-2
        2 months ago

        I’m not Anti AI. I have fun making stuff with it.

        But the copyright laws as they are don’t apply. And if they did it would open a can of worms legally.

        The recipe can’t be copyrighted. The cake produced can’t be copyrighted. But the packaging or style of a cake with your brand could be trademarked which is a different legal ball of wax entirely

        • chemical_cutthroat@lemmy.world
          link
          fedilink
          arrow-up
          2
          arrow-down
          7
          ·
          2 months ago

          What is the limit to the number of words that can be copyrighted?

          For sale,

          baby shoes,

          never worn.

          Can I claim that as my own? Is six words the lowest? Four? Where is the line? What makes it art vs. instruction? If Hemmingway had said those words to his publicist and asked that they be published instead of writing them himself, would he still own them?

          • SzethFriendOfNimi@lemmy.world
            link
            fedilink
            arrow-up
            8
            ·
            edit-2
            2 months ago

            And therein lies the rub. When it comes to copyright every infringement case has to be adjudicated by a judge (assuming they have filed a copyright)

            I can definitely recommend Leonard French’s (a copyright lawyer) channel Lawful Masses on YouTube and Twitch for a more in-depth breakdown of copyright cases. How it works, the rights that copyright holders have, etc.

    • Lets_Eat_Grandma@lemm.ee
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      3
      arrow-down
      4
      ·
      2 months ago

      It has to be fixed in a tangible medium.

      Hard disks are pretty tangible.

      But if they are not as you suggest, does this mean all digital photography is not copyright able?

      So many arguments as to why this shouldn’t be subject to copyright seem to fail simple questions of logic.

      If the output of ML isn’t copyright able, then the inputs should not be subject to copyright either. The whole system is broken and only serves to enrich the few at the expense of the many. It doesn’t protect the small time artists, only the exceptionally wealthy ones who earn more than the typical worker will make in many lifetimes.

      • SzethFriendOfNimi@lemmy.world
        link
        fedilink
        arrow-up
        4
        ·
        2 months ago

        Here’s more if you’d like to read about it.

        https://www.copyright.gov/engage/visual-artists/

        I remember when the DMCA was introduced and all the various issues arising from what and isn’t copyrightable when it comes to digital vs physical copies, etc.

        Again I’d like to recommend Leonard French (Lawful Masse) on YouTube and Twitch for a copyright lawyers breakdown of these kinds of issues.