No. For a destination where I am going this summer a train trip is 12h with a stopover and if I want a sleeper cabin, the whole trip is 300€. Plane takes 1.5h and costs 50€.
Also as I’m in the middle of one of those routes, if I were to return home by train, I’d need to get off at 3am.
Here’s my solution: tax the living hell out of aviation please, use this money to subsidize trains. There will be more supply and more demand on the rails. We will suddenly have frequent and convenient connections. And we all will be co2-neutral.
Your case is very clear cut, but for some journeys where travel times are closer together, e.g. 1 hour flight versus 4 hour train people do tend to forget that there is extra time wasted going to the airport, checking luggage, boarding, whereas the train is “just there”. Depending on your location going to the train station may also be faster than going to the airport, maybe even cheaper!
That said, the price of each journey most likely will always favour flying at the moment.
I have never had a train journey where something hasn’t gone horribly wrong like missed connections, cancelled trains, trains overcrowded with drunk football fans, etc.
Having to look for hotel at night in middle of nowhere or having to sleep in the station because the next train is going tomorrow can ruin the whole trip.
Planes can be cancelled too but it’s not a guaranteed thing like with trains.
The probability of a smooth plane journey feels like 90% while for trains its like 1%
To neighboring countries yes, if there is a good connection. If there is a night train even further. However, the price should not be much higher than a flight and I want to change train as little as possible. Buying tickets should not be too complicated either. Unfortunately, taking an airplane is often easier in my experience. We need a true high-speed railway network across Europe. Something like the Shinkanzen.
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I’m currently waiting for a train to go two countries over for a weekend, so… yes?
update: am on the train
What about now? I need updates man. Life of noodlejetski is a thriller!
still chuggin’ along, but in roaming
It’s been 15 hours, how’s life?
back on tracks, baby!
Amazing! Keep us updated!
just got off the train, and waiting for a bus home. the 45 minute delay during the journey was NOT fun, but oh well
It is just too expensive compare to plane and that’s a shame. I’ve seen it is cheaper for scotisch and Londoners to meet in Spain than to take train.
If you fly, we all pay more.
I took a trip from the Netherlands to Romania, and amazingly only had a single transfer.
At least, that was the plan, but then a train went missing on the way there and we had an additional transfer. Pretty stressful. Way home was super smooth though.
The one thing I don’t get the EU doesn’t bring down the hammer on is getting directions and buying tickets. Feels like that should be a relatively easy fix, forcing all European rail companies to align from the top down. But I’m probably unaware of something that makes that harder than it seems.
Pretty much all train companies are vast old overcomolicated state-run monoliths that are very used to everyone working around them in their own country. Such organisations suddenly having to work together with others as equals requires a culture shift. Not to mention the technical challenges, the IT systems - if they even have any, or any from this century - are typically vastly different. They’d have to invest massively in modernisation and standardisation before they can even think of integration. This requires a multi-year effort and a lot of investment, which many states are not ready to make.
Sauce: the Swiss state-run train company SBB/CFF/FFS is and has been working hard to integrate the systems of just our neighbours, and it has been … interesting.
Oh yes, I’m not doubting it would be a multi-year effort, it’s more that I’m not aware of any such effort being in progress. Like, couldn’t the EU at least have set a goal of interoperability in
xyears?
I am fighting the train travel jihad, I take the train even if it’s more expensive and takes way longer.
There are dozens of us! Dozens!!!
An elegant form of tavel, for a more civilized time.
Agreed, me too. Have been to all four corners of Europe and beyond by train. It’s fine, a bit expensive and time-consuming but with advantages too. And at least I’m not a hypocrite when I say I care about the climate.
As a French living in Germany, I often take the train to visit some friends/family. I would say it’s working well from Frankfurt to Lyon or Frankfurt to Paris and not too expensive if you have a Bahncard and you can plan your trip in advance. But IMO, it the least we should expect from 2 neighboring countries.
I’m very excited to see the resurgence of night trains though, I love this mean of transport in particular!
One of my dream vacations is to get my wife and kid Eurail Global Passes for a few weeks or a month, and just backpack everywhere constantly staying in hostels and seeing everything. It’d probably be kind of stressful and tiring, but memorable.
I’ve never done that, exactly, but I’ve done several trips of that length around Europe and South America.
My (general) sanity rules have become these: never stop for less than two nights, always spend four nights in the same place after 2-3 shorter stops, and spend a full week somewhere during the trip.
While this may feel limiting, I’ve found that anything more strenuous has always overwhelmed someone in the group.
Edit: minor schedule adjustments
I’d say: do the opposite! Don’t plan anything, stay no more than two nights at the same place, jump on a train and see where you end up. Then, if you don’t like, just take the next train somewhere else.
I did this twice in my early twenties and it was amazing. I mean, it was absolutely horrible. I slept on bark benches, in Cafés, in train stations, before train stations (until they turned on the sprinklers)… I was picked up by the police because we got lost in a field and more than once I was convinced I’d die. But it was absolutely worth it and both trips became core memories / PTSD trigger.
But seriously, don’t follow this advice if you have a kid and are not an immortal twenty-something.
My kid would enter a possibly permanent fugue state and run away from home, but it’d certainly be memorable
That’s basically how I developed my current planning guidelines lol.
It was fun/terrifying but I’d rather not sleep in hotels that charge by the hour these days.
Thank you for the sane guidelines. My latent hubris would no doubt have me blurring about the continent like the subject of an international manhunt. Having spent 48 hours on a cross country Amtrak once, I should be less keen to recreate the experience in European terms.
Please avoid trains in Greece. Last year about 60 people were killed (most I think were uni students), because we don’t have almost any safety mechanisms… There were two trains, one with passengers who took the last train and one on the opposite direction on the same track for ~10 ehole minutes before the collided…
The other train seems to had been carring illegal flammable oil or sonething that caused an explosion upon collision.
The goverment tried to cover up everything once it happened (they even poured cement on the collision point and removed debris “to clean the space”, thus removing evidence), there were some (unifished) joke trials that lead almost nowhere (there might still be investigations) and most importantly, the people working on the trains say that there have been nearly zero improvements to the system. And they blamed it ~all on the single guy who managed the tracks/routes of the trains.
Another symptom of capitalism (the company which operates the trains is private for some years)…
Check this wikipedia article if you want to learn more https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tempi_train_crash (or search somewhere else).
It’s sad because trains ~should be the future means of transportation, along with trams (only the capital city has tram I think)…
PS. On the other hand, I dont know how much less safe our trains are compared to boeing planes, hmm.
So you’re saying the train company needs to be nationalised and the capitalist pigs running it into the ground while extracting profits for themselves tried & jailed?
Because that’s what I am saying.
The governments need to be tried too (especially the current one, those people should probably be jailed for many many things they’ve done), but there are laws protecting them…
Taking a plane instead of a train because of lower accident risk seems pretty unethical given how incredibly polluting short-haul flights are. On any train, even in Greece, your chances of injury from accident are vanishingly small. Certainly far smaller than any kind of road transport, such as a bus.
Apart from safety reasons, it’s a way of protesting against their actions (I know, there are other ways of protesting too, I took part in some of those as well).
Btw, I think it’s more popular (and cheaper) to just get the bus than the plane, Greece isn’t a big coutry.
Generally speaking they are probably safe since this may be the only deadly train accident I know of in Greece, but I can’t trust my life to their ~unregulated-unmaintained systems and I don’t want to support them financially, at least as long as they don’t change and just try to cover up a mass murder.
I dare you to find that train between Lisbon and Madrid
I did an interrail journey some years ago, so yeah I guess! (800 euro at the time for 15 days of unlimited train everywhere in Europe but the country you start at, it was a cool trip).
I am in love with train travel but in the last years my local system has lost a step or two, to put it mildly. I’m seriously considering going back to more air travel, and I hate what the whole flying experience has become.
It used to be that one could spend three hours dealing with the airport experience plus an hour or two flying - or enjoy four or five relaxing hours on the train to somewhere, no garbage security checks, lines, etc. But nowadays on the train you’re almost guaranteed delays, cancellations, extra stopovers, etc., which means sometimes you’re not even sure on longer trips if you’ll make it home that day.
Obviously this cancels out any advantages of train travel aside from the environmental ones. And if you have someone like me, who like I said, absolutely loves traveling by train, considering going back to the airport - how are you going to convince the average person to ride instead of fly?
I’m sure it’s all the result of cost-cutting efforts but train companies desperately need to underderstand that what makes people more likely to ride are the things they’re choosing to sacrifice when they’re trying to cut costs.
I firmly believe train travel needs to be heavily subsidised and not run like a business. Leaders need to understand that it’s important infrastructure and enables business of all other sorts. Not unlike the highway system, which they do without batting an eye.
The railway system in Sweden is trash. We have to and should have spent a lot more into maintenance and new tracks.
Interesting to hear that other countries have the same problem. Sweden wasn’t one I would have thought of tho.
It’s important to remember that everyone places that bar differently.
“Bad” in one country could mean the trains are 2 min late while it could mean 45 min late somewhere else.
It seems like anyone you ask will tell you how the trains there are worse than in other places. I guess there’s always a country that has it better. I don’t think there are many countries that give enough priority to trains to satisfy transit users.
Having just returned from Stockholm to the UK I have to say it was seriously impressive in comparison, atleast in Stockholm greater area I had nothing but good experiences with public transport. The cost of travelling within Stockholm unlimited for a week (£35) on busses and trains is around the price to take 1-2 trains in the UK. And they’re so frequent and run for better hours. Not saying this to detract from your message tho, just interesting to see a different perspective … it’s likely theres valid case to improve funding for maintenance and lay new tracks
I have been to Sweden (Stockholm) by train from Germany and found it better than the German and Danish trains.
Sweden is a long country and it is worse up north.
I am from Norway so…no. Just to make the point even more clear. That pink line up north. It’s mostly for shipping iron ore from Kiruna to the port in Narvik. It can take passengers but it’s not its main purpose. And the rest of the Norwegian rail system stops in Bodø. So from Narvik to Bodø you need a six hour+ bus drive. (This is an map of the EU system I think so Norway and the UK are left out)
I remember when this image was forst posred some brits were pissed that they were jot included.
As I’m living in the north of Germany I could probably easily go to Denmark and Sweden, haven’t tried that yet though. Been to Prague by train once, which was okay, as there was a direct connection by EC.
Actually I’m planning to go to Austria this summer, so I’ve recently looked it up. Plane tickets are more then twice as expensive compared to train for my route. The train takes 11-12 hours (depending on connection) though, which is absolute max for me. So yeah, wouldn’t go further than that. (Still looked up a connection to Croatia, that would’ve been an absolute pain in the a** by train…)
The Swedish sleeper trains between Berlin/Hamburg and Stockholm are pretty convenient, and I can highly recommend them. Apparently there’s one (run by Snälltåget) between Stockholm and Dresden now as well. When the Fehmarn tunnel opens in a few years, the trip will become a few hours shorter, hopefully opening up new routes.
The ÖBB has pretty good night trains
How long’s flying though? Considering I regularly do 1.5hr flights for work, but realistically the whole process takes about 4.5hrs to get from A to B (including the 20 mins drive from the airports). Feels like half my day is gone but I barely get two episodes of Scrubs in on the laptop before it has to shut for landing.
The flight itself is 1.5 h as well, but I would need 2 additional hours by train to actually get to my destination. So idk maybe 6 hrs in total? I have no idea if that’s realistic though, have never seen an airport from the inside.
A flying horn that’s never flown?
Sth like a squirrel, only series controlled crashes, afaik.
