So Monk is the one class we didn’t get a prior UA for, which means all the changes are totally new. I’m still wrapping my head around it. Martial Arts die increase: good. Martial Arts die not affecting weapons: bad. Step of the Wind buff: good. Stunning Strike nerf: bad but reasonable?
I feel like they knew Monks needed help, but it doesn’t really seem like they made as much effort to fix that as I think they really needed to. Anything I might be missing that saves the Class here?
I’m lukewarm on it. By my measure, the critical flaw in the monk’s design is stunning strike. Any discussion on the monk that I’ve had has invariably been pulled to that singular ability.
It’s an incredibly swingy ability that only costs one point. As a result all monks need to weigh all their point-cost abilities against it, and in combat either the monk is a mediocre contributor or they undermine the whole encounter by disabling key actors. SS was nerfed, but I’d like to see a version where it was removed entirely and it’s power was distributed throughout the class.
A key compromise that I think would be healthy is to transplant stunning strike into a subclass. That way players who enjoy that playstyle can opt for it, and DMs who dislike running games for those builds can disallow them at their table.
As for all the other details, I’m uncertain. There are some improvements, but it’s hard not to see the system bending over backwards and straining to fit around stunning strike.
I like the monk as the class who applied status conditions to enemies. The guy who runs around the battlefield who supports his allies but debuffing the enemies. So stun works with that fantasy but if it’s in a subclass like open hand that allows the others to have a cool signature ability at like 5th level.
Since I doubt that will happen I enjoy the changes now. You can do stun once and then use your discipline points elsewhere.
I absolutely agree with you on the Stunning Strike matter. The nerf has helped - it’s gone from “Use almost all my Ki on Stunning Strike.” to “What can I afford to use Ki on while Stunning Strike is on cooldown?” But it’s still the wrong kind of question to be asking, and IMO it’s exactly the kind of debilitating ability that makes DnD unfun.
I’m underwhelmed and disappointed by the changes to the base class.
However, the monk actually works fairly well as a hit and run skirmisher now without having to rely on the Mobile feat or sacrificing damage with patient defense or step of the wind, thanks to the subclass abilities.
Shadow can rely on Darkness to move away without getting hit. Elements gets reach. Open Hand got shafted, since Addle rely on saves to be able to safely move away.Monks still have too few Dicipline points until around level 7-8.
Monks are still very MAD. They need Dex, Wis, Con. Add in Str if they want to grapple.
Increased martial arts die is a good change. Too bad it no longer applies to weapons.
Access to mastery is “alright”. Vex is probably the best option. I don’t think the other options available to monks are very useful, unless the monk gets access to two weapon fighting style for Nick. The fact that monks can’t apply mastery to their unarmed strikes is a huge missed opportunity imo.
Stunning strike nerf was needed, but maybe they nerfed it too hard. It used to last until the end of the monks next turn, now it lasts until the start of the monks next turn. Maybe limiting the attmepts to once per turn is enough?
Hightened metabolism is ok. But it’s weird how they attempt to get rid of and solve short rest mechanics when a easier fix would just be to shorten short rests. When you get access to this, the Dicipline point problem is mostly over anyway.
Self restoration as a bonus action instead of a action is alright, even if it’s pushed back to level 10. Better hope you can still use your bonus action when subjected to those conditions. Why not make it a reaction when subjected to those conditions? And why did monks lose their immunity to poison? I loved that.
What would I change? I’m not sure but here are some suggestions. They are probably not balanced.
Sever the ties to “east asian” monks completely and remove reliance on WIS.
Monk Save DC should be based on Dex, Unarmed defense should be 10 + Dex + Con, Monks are no longer MAD. I don’t think this will happen, but it will solve a lot of issues IMO.
More Dicipline points in the early levels. They should start with at least 4 at level 2.
Allow Monks to use their Dex for Jumps and Grapples.
Martial arts die should also apply to weapons. Monks should be able to apply some of the masteries to their unarmed attacks.
Stunning strike. Since Stun is too good, rename the feature and have it apply another condition, like Daze or Incapacitated. Maybe make it only cost Dicipline if the effect actually works.
Hightened metabolism. Since they refuse to shorten short rests to like 10-15 min, make this usable twice between long rests.
Self-Restoration. Make it a reaction when subjected to the conditions. Maybe add a Dicipline cost.
Give back poison immunity.
Open Hand Technique should be able to be used with all unarmed strikes, not just from flurry of blows. Addle should not require a save.I never really like the idea of using two stat bonuses calculating your entire AC in 5e. It’s a holdover from earlier editions, when getting stat boosts through stacking bonuses from magic items, spells, and potions would allow for very high scaling.
There’s a clear direction from all the rewritten subclasses, in that each one contains a method of either pushing away your target when you hit them in a variety of ways, or providing clear ways of disengaging from melee. Maybe this should just be placed in the base class, that 1/turn any Monk gets to push a target away that is struck with an unarmed attack, like the ‘Shove’ feature of the Tavern Brawler feat? Or maybe just giving Monk the ‘shove’ weapon mastery to all unarmed attacks, and the Monk gets to add other specific masteries as they level up?
Hightened metabolism is ok. But it’s weird how they attempt to get rid of and solve short rest mechanics when a easier fix would just be to shorten short rests. When you get access to this, the Dicipline point problem is mostly over anyway.
I think getting heightened metabolism at 5th level would solve a lot of problems. It would allow for early monks to get another quick rest to recharge at low levels when it’s needed the most. I would move stunning strike to 7 to use it when there’s enough points to go around. This will get players more uses of their non stunning abilities without them feeling like a trap options
I am amazed WotC managed to take weakest class in the game and find a way to STRIP ALL GOOD THINGS IT HAD GOING FOR IT! And then, to add insult to injury, they put a Bard subclass whose whole thing is “Be better Monk than the Monk” in the same UA.
At this point we should just ask them to make Monk a half-caster because that’s the only way anyone at WotC will actually care about the class.
The Stunning Strike Nerf is a good thing. Damages appear to be reasonable:
- 2d6 + 2DEX at level 1
- 2d6 + 2DEX any number of times at level 2
- 3d6 + 3DEX twice a short rest at level 2
- 4d8 + 4DEX five times a short rest at level 5
- (changes to Force - the least resisted damage type in 5E at level 6, as an option)
- 4d10 +4DEX eleven times a short rest at level 11
- 4D12 + 4DEX seventeen times a short rest at level 17
These assume you’re using Discipline for Flurry of Blows, which isn’t always possible. They also assume a 100% hit rate, but what’s fantastic on all these also is that it’s multiple attack rolls. It is possible, but unlikely, you’ll miss all the attacks. You have a really good chance of getting at least one nat 20 in your rolls. I usually prefer multiple attack rolls.
Also, for the first 5 levels - you can snag a D8 Simple Weapon (most simples are D6 or lower, none are above a D8) to improve damage, and you can opt for the mastery attack and effect that goes with it - and you can change masteries at a long rest.
And note, these aren’t counting using various feats to get bonus damage, buffs, etc. I would argue that I think overall there are not enough Discipline points before around level 8-10 and there are too many after level 16 or so. But that’s just me (since it’s a short rest resource, and given the change to stunning strike, it seems less likely that you’d ever need 20 points)
And this keeps in mind you can still layer an Eldritch Claw Tatoo, for example, on top of these damages. This likely wants the same change as other current abilities (one bonus damage a round, versus one bonus damage a hit), but used as written right now - it would add a d6 to each hit and increase reach to 15’. But I mean, we’ll be seeing those items in games for years to come - and it seems unlikely all current magic items will be absorbed into the DMG.
I think what you’re largely missing is how the damage ceiling has come down due to the removal of many methods that optimizers would use to stack a lot of damage into a single turn.
Given that, the lack of damage increase is either fine, or only slightly sub-par.
Saw a comment yesterday that really rung true to me about monk: “We finally have a versatile, interesting monk! …All it took was for it to be a bard subclass” (referring to the college of dance, which gets unarmored defense and unarmed strikes)
On a serious note, though, overall the monk is pretty bleh IMO. It nerfed the monks strongest ability (stunning strike), which was not unexpected, but it gets little in the way to make up for it, which i feel is going to leave the monk behind overall.
At least 4 elements looks like it could actually be fun, now.
The new 4 elements looks awesome. The ability to switch damage types will be super fun to avoid resistances and pile on vulnerabilities which really supports team play and in game research which I love. I love the crown control with the push and pull on these strikes at 10 ft. which is also a great teamwork play.
For me, the fact that the reach of unarmed strikes increase by 10 ft is enough for me to be interested.
Same. Extended reach with elemental damage for 1 discipline point. Count me in