It’s debatable if this stuff really helps. It raises GDP, but all that money stays with very few people.
Biden has those voters already. What he doesn’t have is the demographics that care about their tax dollars funding a genocide: the youth, minorities, and progressives. So if he’s doing this for the votes, it’s a waste of time effort and money.
If beating trump is all that matters, why aren’t people demanding Biden do the stuff that most helps him beat trump?
Why can Biden pick and choose with no regard for what is effective, but voters have to shut up and vote blue no matter who?
The only place that leads is effectively having zero say in who our president is.
The next Republican will be at least as bad as trump, shit doesn’t just get better over there.
why aren’t people demanding Biden do the stuff that most helps him beat trump?
He’s won a lot more elections than most people, so he’s not necessarily going to go along with whatever internet strangers think will help him.
Regarding Israel, he has done things that people demanded, like “just call for a ceasefire”. It didn’t move the needle, people simply changed their demands. Israel weapon shipments are currently on hold, but protestors barely noticed. Completely ending aid to Israel would likely require Congressional action. And maybe he figures that even if he could get that done (he can’t), people would then “just” demand divestment. And then they would “just” demand sanctions against Israel.
At this point, some people are not going to vote for him no matter what he does. Maybe that’s why he is focusing on people who don’t think Gaza is very important, who after all are the majority.
It didn’t move the needle, people simply changed their demands.
Shout out from the fuckin mountaintops
These fucking agitators NEVER GAVE A SHIT about Gaza, just like they never gave a shit about unions or student loans or whatever. It was always about hurting Biden. You dumb leftist fucks keep falling for obvious “hello there fellow kids” propaganda.
It works so well. See: Iran, Russia, China, and Nazi Germany for just a FEW examples of the Left fucking itself over and being played by Authoritarians.
What a ridiculous way to compute value. Do you really think jobs are the only thing bought with that money? It brings money into the community. Those workers take that money and spend it at local businesses, driving the local economy up. Why do you think cities fall over each other to court these companies?
You keep trying to drive back to the genocide, but listen to what the people above you are telling you: the populace cares more about the economy and jobs than they do about Palestine. Last I checked (and I don’t have a source for you, sorry, just something I read in an article recently.) about half of Americans find Israel sympathetic in this conflict and about 30% find Palestine sympathetic. It’s obviously much more skewed toward Palestine for young people, but they are also notoriously the most fickle and demanding demographic.
The left is trying to win a noble fight with leverage it does not have, which is sadly their modus operandi. If you want a path that is set in reality and reduces the pain decades of foreign policy have constructed, vote Biden and vote as left as possible downticket to create an ecosystem where Congress can get the left what it wants and needs. I’d be happy to be wrong, but I do not believe there is anything else possible to be done in the current geopolitical scheme.
EDIT: I did find the Gallup poll. Gallup. You’ll have to scroll past the opinions on the PA specifically.
You are the very definition of a single issue voter, and your single issue is far closer in nature to your complaints here about the issue you are poo-pooing here.
Israel is an 18 hour flight that costs almost $2000 for most Americans. The quickest flight is 12 hours and $1k. For most Americans, especially given how insular most Americans are, Israel might as well be on another planet. They might feel sorry for the Palestinians killed by Israelis, but then again, they may also feel sorry for the Israelis abducted and killed by Hamas. For most people, there are no heroes in the Israel-Hamas war, only villains, and for those who REALLY care about this, there’s a significant number of people who view HAMAS and Palestine as the bad guy, and leaving Israel to hang will piss them off, and take their votes and, for the rich ones, their money away to other political parties. That’s a far bigger deal to the Democrats than college kids who can’t be trusted to get out and vote on election day.
You’re being told to vote blue no matter who because the reality of the political system is that at the end of the day, one of two people will be in the White House come Election Day. The Republican or the Democrat. So you have to look at what the Republican and the Democrat are offering you, and pick the BEST of the two options from that list*.
Team Red is promising you that if you vote for them, they’ll take the country back to the 1950s. Where Blacks were put in their place as subhumans, and women in their place as baby-factories. Where White Men ran the show and everyone else sat down and shut the fuck up. Where the Left was in league with the Commies and where gays were drugged and killed, not allowed to get married. Donald Trump, who WILL be their standard bearer for three elections in a row, is openly admiring the likes of Orban, Netanyahu (no chance he’s helping the Palestinians!), Kim, and above all, Putin (defeating an authoritarian Russia is important to a lot of Lefties, too, considering they are going in the direction of Czarist Russia pre-Communism). A vote for Team Red may be the last free vote you ever make!
Team Blue, for all its faults, is a party that stands for libertarian ideals, the freedom to choose to live your life the way you wish within reason, and influence the government with votes. Were Team Red not so horrible for ALL Americans and indeed the entire world, Team Blue would simply say ‘vote for us next time and we’ll clean up the mess you made when you voted for the other guys this time.’ If you actually care about gays, transgenders, minorities, women, the environment, consumers, workers, and so on, you have to realise that Team Red is against all those people and Team Blue is for all those people. Even with as wishy washy as Biden is being over Palestinians, you have to realise that Biden is at least telling Netanyahu “Our support isn’t unlimited. You need to dial this shit down or my hand may be forced by my constituents.” Pro-tip: Trump will say “Go ahead. Kill every last one of those filthy muslims. My constituents like that shit and I’m busy jailing everyone who doesn’t.”
In the end, you’re being told Vote Blue no Matter Who because a vote for Team Red, or indeed any other party including a non-vote may be the last fucking vote you’re ever allowed to take.
(*): Unless you live in Alaska or Maine or one of the towns that allows RCV. Here, feel free to vote Green as long as Blue is your second choice.
PS: I studied the fall of the Iranian Resistance and the rise of the Ayatollah in an undergrad Political Science class back in undergrad. Important lesson: Khomeini rose to Supreme Leader by dividing the Left and making them fight amongst themselves after they worked together to overthrow the Shah. So did Hitler, honestly. It’s a time-tested tradition to throw in division on the Left because it works so fucking well. WE need to be the Left that doesn’t break to this, because Trump is counting on us breaking so he can do here what Hitler did to Germany and Khomeini did to Iran. You pushing so hard for that serves Trump’s purposes. Any wonder why you’re getting so many downvotes?
Don’t underestimate the impact on attitudes. It’s less about beating Trump the individual and more about beating the methods he represents, and demonstrating their ineffectiveness outside of the primaries.
To use WW2 as a convenient example, the gross mistakes the Axis powers made that led to their own defeats are powerful for illustrating how ineffective their systems are. Like how the Japanese thought Pearl Harbor and the Germans thought invading Russia were good ideas. The simple fact that they screw up so obviously and massively decreases the popularity of fascism in the modern day.
While we’ll always have niche conspiracy theorists and such, it’s only a subset of people that swallow all that hook, line and sinker, and that subset was unlikely to be won over in the first place. More balanced sorts will be more willing to seriously weigh the considerations, though, and if Trump’s methods ultimately prove foolish, that’s a strong point going forward.
It won’t be so simple as fixing everything by beating Trump, that’s just a single battle in a broader, longer ideological debate. But it helps, far more than a loss would.
Guarenting a Biden victory is as easy as him publicly denouncing Israel and stopping all weapons sales and “aid” to Israel.
That’s not even a majority opinion in the voters of the Democratic Party. I really don’t know where you people are getting your idea of the American electorate.
A poll was just released saying a majority of Democrats characterize what’s happening as a genocide, and 30% said it was a top issue. 40% of likely voters in general call it a genocide and 70% want a permanent ceasefire. Where are you getting your idea of the American electorate from? Cause poll after poll has shown a majority of Americans and a large majority of Democrats, even if they won’t call it a genocide, disapprove of what’s happening in Palestine.
Even so if it was a fringe issue this election is looking to be incredibly close and may be decided by 10,000 of those “fringe” voters in Dearborn Michigan deciding not to vote for Biden.
Voters are split on whether they believe Israel is committing genocide against the Palestinian people living in Gaza, with 39% saying Israel is committing genocide, 38% saying Israel is not, and 23% saying they don’t know.
A separate question in the poll underscores Americans’ leanings toward Israel, as it finds 51% saying they sympathize more with the Israelis and 27% more with the Palestinians. The remainder say they sympathize equally with both sides (4%), do not sympathize with either side (10%) or do not have an opinion (8%).
You’re not genuinely trying to help Biden; you’re just bitching about what he’s doing wrong. It’s nothing but dishonest concern trolling and I’m sick and tired of you spamming that bullshit all over Lemmy.
LOL, you think just because I’m not in lockstep agreement with your bullshit I’m some sort of neoliberal Hillary fan? Get out of here with that nonsense.
What I understand, but you don’t, is that the time for trying to pick a better candidate has ended. The primary is over; Biden is the candidate whether you like it or not. So what the fuck are you trying to accomplish by opposing him at this point? The answer is, for Trump to win. That is the ONLY possible outcome of discouraging people from voting for Biden now.
is that the time for trying to pick a better candidate has ended
What was the date of the Democratic National Convention when the candidate is named?
And btw, you’re still acting like Biden won’t listen to his voting base, but you’re acting like the response to that should be voters accepting it. Instead of Biden just supporting the will of his voters over his own personal feelings.
What happened to:
Biden isnt a dictator!
Why did he go around Congress to fund Israel’s genocide?
It highlights how all his inaction was bullshit. He could do stuff if he wanted, he just doesn’t want the same things as the people he needs to vote for him
And he refuses to compromise with them.
If beating trump is important to you, you’re more likely to help by calling Biden out and pulling him left than telling voters that they should shut up and vote for him anyways
That’s like telling an angry person “just calm down” while you keep doing something to make them angry intentionally. All it’s gonna do is make the other person angrier
That’s like telling an angry person “just calm down” while you keep doing something to make them angry intentionally. All it’s gonna do is make the other person angrier
Voters don’t want to hear about billions for corporations.
Guarenting a Biden victory is as easy as him publicly denouncing Israel and stopping all weapons sales and “aid” to Israel.
That’s it. Just stop funding a genocide.
But he cares more about supporting Israel’s genocide than preventing trump from becoming president.
The economy is far more important than Gaza to most voters.
It’s debatable if this stuff really helps. It raises GDP, but all that money stays with very few people.
Biden has those voters already. What he doesn’t have is the demographics that care about their tax dollars funding a genocide: the youth, minorities, and progressives. So if he’s doing this for the votes, it’s a waste of time effort and money.
If beating trump is all that matters, why aren’t people demanding Biden do the stuff that most helps him beat trump?
Why can Biden pick and choose with no regard for what is effective, but voters have to shut up and vote blue no matter who?
The only place that leads is effectively having zero say in who our president is.
The next Republican will be at least as bad as trump, shit doesn’t just get better over there.
I guess that’s true if you ignore everything he’s done so far.
You comment the same bs in every Biden thread and even in threads that don’t pertain to him. Pushing an agenda, eh?
He’s won a lot more elections than most people, so he’s not necessarily going to go along with whatever internet strangers think will help him.
Regarding Israel, he has done things that people demanded, like “just call for a ceasefire”. It didn’t move the needle, people simply changed their demands. Israel weapon shipments are currently on hold, but protestors barely noticed. Completely ending aid to Israel would likely require Congressional action. And maybe he figures that even if he could get that done (he can’t), people would then “just” demand divestment. And then they would “just” demand sanctions against Israel.
At this point, some people are not going to vote for him no matter what he does. Maybe that’s why he is focusing on people who don’t think Gaza is very important, who after all are the majority.
Shout out from the fuckin mountaintops
These fucking agitators NEVER GAVE A SHIT about Gaza, just like they never gave a shit about unions or student loans or whatever. It was always about hurting Biden. You dumb leftist fucks keep falling for obvious “hello there fellow kids” propaganda.
It works so well. See: Iran, Russia, China, and Nazi Germany for just a FEW examples of the Left fucking itself over and being played by Authoritarians.
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deleted by creator
A factory that provides me a job affects my day to day life a lot more then a genocide on the other side of the world.
How many jobs is it tho?
3.3 billion for 2,000 permanent jobs.
2,300 temp construction, so we’ll set aside 125k each for them. That’s 287 million total so we can round it to the 3 billion cost for 2k jobs.
That means it’s costing the government 1.5 million for you to have that job.
Would you rather have 1.5 million dollars or this job?
If you’d rather have anything less than 1.5 million, then this is a waste of money.
Edit:
Not to even mention both these cost money.
Stop supporting aid for Israel’s genocide, and we could do one of these a year almost with the money.
It’s not one or the other, that’s why it’s such a big deal Biden won’t.
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What a ridiculous way to compute value. Do you really think jobs are the only thing bought with that money? It brings money into the community. Those workers take that money and spend it at local businesses, driving the local economy up. Why do you think cities fall over each other to court these companies?
You keep trying to drive back to the genocide, but listen to what the people above you are telling you: the populace cares more about the economy and jobs than they do about Palestine. Last I checked (and I don’t have a source for you, sorry, just something I read in an article recently.) about half of Americans find Israel sympathetic in this conflict and about 30% find Palestine sympathetic. It’s obviously much more skewed toward Palestine for young people, but they are also notoriously the most fickle and demanding demographic.
The left is trying to win a noble fight with leverage it does not have, which is sadly their modus operandi. If you want a path that is set in reality and reduces the pain decades of foreign policy have constructed, vote Biden and vote as left as possible downticket to create an ecosystem where Congress can get the left what it wants and needs. I’d be happy to be wrong, but I do not believe there is anything else possible to be done in the current geopolitical scheme.
EDIT: I did find the Gallup poll. Gallup. You’ll have to scroll past the opinions on the PA specifically.
How could I ever have forgotten about trickle down?!
I forgot both parties have politicians unironically trying to bring back regeanomics…
That’s not even remotely what trickle down economics is.
It’s costing Microsoft 1.5 million for you to have that job, because they are the ones spending $3 billion.
Would you rather have this job, or give a raise to their CEO?
You are the very definition of a single issue voter, and your single issue is far closer in nature to your complaints here about the issue you are poo-pooing here.
Israel is an 18 hour flight that costs almost $2000 for most Americans. The quickest flight is 12 hours and $1k. For most Americans, especially given how insular most Americans are, Israel might as well be on another planet. They might feel sorry for the Palestinians killed by Israelis, but then again, they may also feel sorry for the Israelis abducted and killed by Hamas. For most people, there are no heroes in the Israel-Hamas war, only villains, and for those who REALLY care about this, there’s a significant number of people who view HAMAS and Palestine as the bad guy, and leaving Israel to hang will piss them off, and take their votes and, for the rich ones, their money away to other political parties. That’s a far bigger deal to the Democrats than college kids who can’t be trusted to get out and vote on election day.
You’re being told to vote blue no matter who because the reality of the political system is that at the end of the day, one of two people will be in the White House come Election Day. The Republican or the Democrat. So you have to look at what the Republican and the Democrat are offering you, and pick the BEST of the two options from that list*.
Team Red is promising you that if you vote for them, they’ll take the country back to the 1950s. Where Blacks were put in their place as subhumans, and women in their place as baby-factories. Where White Men ran the show and everyone else sat down and shut the fuck up. Where the Left was in league with the Commies and where gays were drugged and killed, not allowed to get married. Donald Trump, who WILL be their standard bearer for three elections in a row, is openly admiring the likes of Orban, Netanyahu (no chance he’s helping the Palestinians!), Kim, and above all, Putin (defeating an authoritarian Russia is important to a lot of Lefties, too, considering they are going in the direction of Czarist Russia pre-Communism). A vote for Team Red may be the last free vote you ever make!
Team Blue, for all its faults, is a party that stands for libertarian ideals, the freedom to choose to live your life the way you wish within reason, and influence the government with votes. Were Team Red not so horrible for ALL Americans and indeed the entire world, Team Blue would simply say ‘vote for us next time and we’ll clean up the mess you made when you voted for the other guys this time.’ If you actually care about gays, transgenders, minorities, women, the environment, consumers, workers, and so on, you have to realise that Team Red is against all those people and Team Blue is for all those people. Even with as wishy washy as Biden is being over Palestinians, you have to realise that Biden is at least telling Netanyahu “Our support isn’t unlimited. You need to dial this shit down or my hand may be forced by my constituents.” Pro-tip: Trump will say “Go ahead. Kill every last one of those filthy muslims. My constituents like that shit and I’m busy jailing everyone who doesn’t.”
In the end, you’re being told Vote Blue no Matter Who because a vote for Team Red, or indeed any other party including a non-vote may be the last fucking vote you’re ever allowed to take.
(*): Unless you live in Alaska or Maine or one of the towns that allows RCV. Here, feel free to vote Green as long as Blue is your second choice.
PS: I studied the fall of the Iranian Resistance and the rise of the Ayatollah in an undergrad Political Science class back in undergrad. Important lesson: Khomeini rose to Supreme Leader by dividing the Left and making them fight amongst themselves after they worked together to overthrow the Shah. So did Hitler, honestly. It’s a time-tested tradition to throw in division on the Left because it works so fucking well. WE need to be the Left that doesn’t break to this, because Trump is counting on us breaking so he can do here what Hitler did to Germany and Khomeini did to Iran. You pushing so hard for that serves Trump’s purposes. Any wonder why you’re getting so many downvotes?
Just because a person mentions one thing, doesn’t mean there’s not other things.
I would be insanely surprised if anyone in America truly only cares about a single issue, let alone it being the support of Israel’s genocide.
I stop reading when I see something obviously wrong, so no idea what the rest of your essay was for.
“iT dOesNt FIt mY nARrAtiVe sO I SToPpEd rEaDiNg.”
deleted by creator
You just barged into a thread about a Microsoft artificial intelligence data center in Wisconsin in order to complain about Gaza.
If the shoe fits, wear it.
Do you think trump would stop selling weapons to Israel?
Like, if you don’t know how this ends up, look at republicans.
Nixon resigned from office because Republican voters had standards.
Now they don’t, and trump is their candidate.
Don’t underestimate the impact on attitudes. It’s less about beating Trump the individual and more about beating the methods he represents, and demonstrating their ineffectiveness outside of the primaries.
To use WW2 as a convenient example, the gross mistakes the Axis powers made that led to their own defeats are powerful for illustrating how ineffective their systems are. Like how the Japanese thought Pearl Harbor and the Germans thought invading Russia were good ideas. The simple fact that they screw up so obviously and massively decreases the popularity of fascism in the modern day.
While we’ll always have niche conspiracy theorists and such, it’s only a subset of people that swallow all that hook, line and sinker, and that subset was unlikely to be won over in the first place. More balanced sorts will be more willing to seriously weigh the considerations, though, and if Trump’s methods ultimately prove foolish, that’s a strong point going forward.
It won’t be so simple as fixing everything by beating Trump, that’s just a single battle in a broader, longer ideological debate. But it helps, far more than a loss would.
That’s not even a majority opinion in the voters of the Democratic Party. I really don’t know where you people are getting your idea of the American electorate.
They get their ideas about the American electorate from their Online and IRL echo chambers.
No shit. This entire country is rabidly pro Israel in so many ways.
Not so much rabidly pro-Israel as ‘there are no heroes here, just villains’. At least on the Left.
AIPAC has paid a lot of money over the course of decades to make it that way.
A poll was just released saying a majority of Democrats characterize what’s happening as a genocide, and 30% said it was a top issue. 40% of likely voters in general call it a genocide and 70% want a permanent ceasefire. Where are you getting your idea of the American electorate from? Cause poll after poll has shown a majority of Americans and a large majority of Democrats, even if they won’t call it a genocide, disapprove of what’s happening in Palestine.
Even so if it was a fringe issue this election is looking to be incredibly close and may be decided by 10,000 of those “fringe” voters in Dearborn Michigan deciding not to vote for Biden.
Furthermore, Americans sympathize with Israelis far more than they sympathize with Palestinians, which suggests denouncing Israel may not actually help Biden win.
You really are Hell-bent on getting Trump elected (thus ensuring the extermination of the Palestinians you claim to care so deeply about), aren’t you?
How would saying what would most help Biden to beat trump somehow be helping trump?
Do you blame the weather channel when there’s rain during your picnic?
Or do you check the weather to see if you should make better plans in advance?
You’re not genuinely trying to help Biden; you’re just bitching about what he’s doing wrong. It’s nothing but dishonest concern trolling and I’m sick and tired of you spamming that bullshit all over Lemmy.
How did ignoring Hillary’s flaws in 2016 work out?
Why are you so excited to repeat it?
LOL, you think just because I’m not in lockstep agreement with your bullshit I’m some sort of neoliberal Hillary fan? Get out of here with that nonsense.
What I understand, but you don’t, is that the time for trying to pick a better candidate has ended. The primary is over; Biden is the candidate whether you like it or not. So what the fuck are you trying to accomplish by opposing him at this point? The answer is, for Trump to win. That is the ONLY possible outcome of discouraging people from voting for Biden now.
What was the date of the Democratic National Convention when the candidate is named?
And btw, you’re still acting like Biden won’t listen to his voting base, but you’re acting like the response to that should be voters accepting it. Instead of Biden just supporting the will of his voters over his own personal feelings.
What happened to:
Why did he go around Congress to fund Israel’s genocide?
It highlights how all his inaction was bullshit. He could do stuff if he wanted, he just doesn’t want the same things as the people he needs to vote for him
And he refuses to compromise with them.
If beating trump is important to you, you’re more likely to help by calling Biden out and pulling him left than telling voters that they should shut up and vote for him anyways
That’s like telling an angry person “just calm down” while you keep doing something to make them angry intentionally. All it’s gonna do is make the other person angrier
And the irony is lost on you.
Maybe if you read the article, you would know it’s “from” not “for”