I just want forums to chat about current events, argue about stupid fandoms, and bicker with internet trolls. Reddit used to be that, and I had hopes for Lemmy, but everything here is choked to death by over moderation that has nothing to do with keeping healthy communities. It’s just thinly veiled echo chambers that don’t want to admit what their community is about.
This is coming off a ban over disagreeing with vegans calling dietary disagreements the same as racism. The dude literally said different species were similar to humans having different races. I called that 1800s slave owning theory racism if I’ve ever seen it lmao.
I know people dont care for internet drama, I just wanted to rant. The internet of tomorrow fucking sucks.
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I disagree with you, but that doesn’t mean you should be banned. I hate censorship whoever it’s against.
This is what I’m talking about. We should be free to disagree, especially in non safe spaces. It was a fucking news sub, not a vegan space.
If you just ban everybody you disagree with, nobody will ever care about your beliefs.
Looking at the modlog, you weren’t banned for your views but your combative and rude attitude expressed in numerous comments, breaking the rules about civility.
Rude attitude is worthy of a ban? Why are none of the rude shit talking vegans in that thread banned? And the other dude has a screenshot of my statements. What are you saying was rulebreaking civility rules?
None of my statements were attacking anything except for racist ideology.
I have no problem admitting I was being rude, the initial topic was about people enraged by the slaughter of a dolphin, and some vegans decided that was the time to shit talk people’s diets in response. I was rude to people being rude.
But I never broke civility rules and was never more egregious than the vegans I was responding to.
Seems kinda like exactly my point that being rude to rude vegans being enough reason to perma ban somebody from a news sub on this site, and how that will choke this site to death.
None of my statements were attacking anything except for racist ideology.
It seems to me that amzd compared speciesism to racism, specifically to condemn speciesism, and by extention factory farms. Not to condone racism.
The step you need, to go from “racism is wrong” to “speciesism is wrong” is to extend your circle of compassion to all sentient animals and not just humans.
This is a direct quote from them that this is based on.
I’m not here to debate the validity of cherry-picked portions of their statement. Feel free to respond to me in that thread on that topic. Then you might understand my rant about pointless bans here. I was fully willing to engage in a good faith debate on this topic in the place where it was happening.
I’m here venting and now justifying my vent to you. You were claiming I was uncivil, and I’m asking you to point at my uncivil statements.
As a sign of good faith, I’ll point out that the debate on veganism wasn’t being fairly input to the thread. The reason I gave half assed responses was that they were attacking people unjustly to begin with.
Veganism is a complex topic ranging from food scarcity to eating habits. I’m an advocate for veganism and participate in 3 vegan days a week. Both me and my wife come from heavy meat cultures and do not find it so simple a habit to beat.
But even when I pointed out they didn’t know my stance on veganism, they were still assholes at a personal level.
So please go continue the conversation on veganism with the rest of the circlejerk where I am banned.
I would prefer the focus of this post be about how unrelated moderation is stifling this site to death.
You were claiming I was uncivil,
I think you are confusing me with someone else.
Maybe in hindsight I should’ve shared a link instead of a screenshot, but I checked the conversation again and I haven’t seen a reply that changes the matter imo.
All I did was posting screenshots asking if this was the conversation you were talking about and pointing out how I think one of the things you said was inaccurate. Since you were bringing this claim here, I figured that that was okay to adress it here.
None of my statements were attacking anything except for racist ideology.
It seems to me that amzd compared speciesism to racism, specifically to condemn speciesism, and by extention factory farms. Not to condone racism.
The step you need, to go from “racism is wrong” to “speciesism is wrong” is to extend your circle of compassion to all sentient animals and not just humans.
This is a direct quote from them that this is based on.
++++++++++
Here is your comment I responded to. The claim you were challenging was me saying I was not uncivil because I attacked racist ideology, not individuals.
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Looking at the modlog, you weren’t banned for your views but your combative and rude attitude expressed in numerous comments, breaking the rules about civility.
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Here is the start of this specific comment chain that you are debating my response to.
But now that I’ve hammered down to the point of the matter, you want to posture that I’ve lost the comment chain.
The claim you were challenging was me saying I was not uncivil because I attacked racist ideology, not individuals.
The claim I was challenging was that it was racist in the first place. That’s all I was doing in this thread.
And that kind of discussion would go in the relevant thread, in the sub I’m banned in.
I’m not here to debate the validity of cherry-picked statements from the dude who says human races are like different species.
So please go continue the conversation on veganism with the rest of the circlejerk where I am banned.
Sounds reasonable. The discussion already happened once, there is probably no need to have the same argument here.
I had a quick look at the initial thread, but that’s not my community, so I didn’t care too much.
I had a look here and removed agressive comments. So I guess here we are okay for now.
Anybody seeing this who’s a big Lemmy booster/advocate pay close attention to OP.
Lemmy’s problem isn’t the software, or the servers, or even a lack of content. The thing holding Lemmy back is the people.
Power tripping mods and just fucking intolerable users are actively turning off new users from the start. If you want Lemmy to grow, don’t tolerate the bad behavior.
Yup. Even after spending 4 months blocking the most rancid portions of Lemmy, its still almost unusable because of the moderation and radicalized echo chambers of users.
Example:
Quote of the first line out my mouth yesterday morning to my wife “I fucking hate conservatives” (I had just gotten done reading a bunch of conservatives cheering on the FASCIST police intervention at UT Austin).
Despite that, the conservative instance is one of the best moderated spaces on Lemmy. I go in there and shit talk their beliefs, and they debate me with sources.
Meanwhile I’m banned in multiple news groups for not agreeing implicitly with one of the power mods and banned in others news groups for arguing with racist vegan theory.
This fucking website is devolving into shittier small circus tents. Might as well be clown cars.
If the first words out of your mouth in the morning are “I hate (insert just about anything here)” ya might have a problem.
I do have a problem with rising fascism destroying constitutional rights in America.
If you don’t have a problem with that, you’re part of the problem.
So, Dr. Lemmy, what do you diagnose me with? Empathy for my peers? Rage against the Machine?
Imagine reading my whole statement endorsing a conservative political space and this being the bit you wanted to pedantically bicker about.
The bit criticizing fascist violence.
Ladies and gentlemen, exhibit A.
What about that statement are you exhibiting to who? Your bs being directly addressed?
You can’t respond in earnest because what I said is true so you speak to an imaginary crowd instead as a coping mechanism.
Enjoy crying to nobody.
You want a direct answer? Fine, you asked for it.
You’re the problem with Lemmy. You and other wild-eyed, foaming-at-the-mouth political zealots.
If you introduce me to a carbon copy of myself - one that agrees with every single opinion that I have - but he had even a fraction of the zeal and obsession that I see here I would be running for the hills.
It’s off-putting and downright terrifying to see evidence that people capable of such obsession exist outside of asylums.
You didn’t address anything I said. Ironically, you just had a foaming at the mouth meltdown because somebody is of a different political orientation than you.
My post had 2 political topics:
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How much I hate the conservative endorsement of political violence against their fellow citizens.
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I endorsed the moderation of the conservative instance on Lemmy as the best I’ve seen on this site.
You didn’t address either of these points.
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Colour me a little bit suspicious here, but when someone says “all I did was disagree with X” I start wondering at what the “disagreement” looked like.
Since I only have one side of the story, I’m going to reserve judgment beyond, you know, pointing out I haven’t been banned anywhere that I know of and I quite often disagree with people.
Or you could look at the moderation history and my comment history.
I literally directly quoted the most controversial thing I said, they laid out an argument that non vegans are the same as racists because different species discrimination is the same as racial discrimination.
I pointed out that equating different races of humans to different species is “1800s slave owning racist theory if ive ever seen it”.
Quote the most controversial thing in my comment history you can find.
Go argue with vegans in the news@lemmyworld instance and see how it plays out for you.
Edit: Apparently, it’s messed up to recommend methods of empirical evidence in the face of assumption.
My bad yall, I’ll just let the assumptions run next time.
Perhaps English isn’t your first language?
… I’m going to reserve judgment …
Except now there’s a little bit more judgment because your reply here is pretty indicative of what I was hinting at.
(P.S. “Little bit.” Words have meaning in context. Read all of them, please.)
Sure dude.
Moderating against hate speech can be really difficult nowadays with risk of being sued. Anybody managing a forum or comment board of any kind has got to cover their ass, and censorship grows each day.
Theres definitely a lot more hate online now, though, people hold back a lot less in anger than they do in any other state.
I wish there were more opportunities to be parts of healthy communities. So sick of the, “that’s not what the topic of this community is.” Maybe I’ll try to make my own community, but again…. Moderations both necessary and really hard to do right. Lines to not cross are hard to make, and harder to stick to permanently.
Agreed about moderation being difficult. I get that. I just hate that these communities are going to be choked to death by garbage moderation before this site really gets going.
Is this the conversation you’re talking about?
Thanks for the context
Yup. Or that’s half of it. You didn’t include the chain I’m quoting.
This is the second half of our conversation. We had an initial exchange where he wrote that bit I quoted to him.
I tried to take a screenshot, but im unable to view comments in the community now. I usually block communities after a ban so I don’t waste time trying to interact.
If you want the rest of the thread, it’s in that same comment chain with that same user.
I can’t pull links from the responses in my mail or I would have put the link myself.
Full context for anyone interested https://lemmy.world/comment/9621175
Yup, this was it. I would appreciate if you included the snarky initial vegan response to the initial comment that triggered that chain, too. It would be more relevant than those other 2 comments of the random chain above.
Just saying if we are doing context, full context is best. Blaze already included a link, so it’s not necessary, but this is the visual in this thread, thus is the most immediate attention grabbing version of it.
Hello,
Any examples of communities where it happened? Sometimes you can escalate to the instance admins if the mods are power tripping
It was the news@lemmyworld instance.
I pinged one of the admins but no response.
Good luck with that. There are other news communities such as !globalnews@lemmy.zip, Lemmy.zip tends to have pretty laid back moderation
Thanks for the recommendation. I look forward to participating in groups worth supporting.
As an admin, I can see you just mass downvoting things and just being combative and rude (including targeted downvoting specific users). Perhaps the ego trip and problem lies inward.
Hello,
I wouldn’t pay too much attention to OP.
I am the “another moderator interaction” they had today. They wanted to remove their post, but for some reason the removal hasn’t been acted yet on my instance, so it’s still available here, at least for some time: https://lemmy.blahaj.zone/post/11547421
See you around
Don’t worry, I left the key quotes on what was civil vs uncivil according to what you singled out of that thread in another comment.
My deleted post won’t prevent them from having access.
This is a great place to highlight, the problematic quote from me was
“Sorry you have bad taste” to a shitposter in a post of mine.
Right here, an admin is saying “I wouldn’t pay too much attention to OP”.
These both sound like a method of invalidating the input of another person to me.
For those who want to know what this admin is referencing:
I made a post in the movies sub this morning. I was notifying star wars fans there was a theatrical re-run of Episode 1 on May 4th so they should grab their tickets now.
A group of shitposters came in being assholes ranging from saying Star wars is bad to personal attacks that people who like star wars are insufferable.
People who make their whole personality about Star Wars, or Star Trek, or Marvel Comics, or whatever…
Are just as bad as potheads who make their whole personality revolve around the fact that they smoke pot.
Direct quote of one of the commenters
I simply said
“Sorry yall were born with bad taste. Hope it gets better”.
And the mod specifically singled me out as they followed me from this thread.
The other comment is still up.
I only started mass downvoting super mod activity as of today in response to yet another moderator interaction. Don’t try to frame the way I interacted on this site before this post with my reaction to moderator harrasment since then.
Yall can keep your modlog to yourself, and your personal attacks.
Yall are literally stalking me across different posts to start shit and now trying to dig up additional personal information to frame this profile. You call defending myself from yalls harrasment “combatative”.
The only power a user has to combat yalls harrasment is the downvote button or posting and opening themselves up to further harrasment. A downvote is a legitimate form of interaction and is exactly how I plan on interacting with every super mod post going forward.
This all happened after this post, not before it, and I’ve had dozens of perfectly fine interactions with dozens of users on this site outside of the mods.
Enjoy preventing interaction by constant tone policing.
And I’ve barely used this site, but the metrics are showing it going down. The mods are literally in another thread, crying to each other about “shouting to the void”. So maybe you are coping by pinning the death of your subs on one user who does not appreciate the harrasment.
Well now you know why you are losing users.
Yall pick fights with legitimate interaction in the name of civility to protect shitposting.
Edit: another mod just wrote a long personal attack justifying their behavior again. Deleted it, but I saw it.
I thought it was just a couple problematic mods, I didn’t realize yall were forming a mod clique in private dialogues baking this behavior into the community.
Please leave this community.
I am asking this calmly. The vocabulary (“choking to death”, “star shit”, “one user who is sick of yall”) you use doesn’t fit with the atmosphere we want to have here.
There are plenty of other communities here when you can have the kind of interaction you enjoy having.
Have a good one.
Hey, I’ve edited the tone of the targeted communication. Does this fit your guidelines?
I understand you have power over both communities and have personal beef, but would it be fair for me to ask a different moderator to input here?
Can you remove yourself due to a conflict of interest?
Can you make a post of the overall discourse that mods can be directed to instead of hashing it out in my thread? My post here is being derailed by personal attacks and you are choosing to kick me out.
This is kind of my entire point about singled out harrasment by stalker mods.
Thanks, you also have a good one.
The edit is better.
About the conflit of interest, feel free to ask input from another mod, but I noticed I’m usually quite lenient on this community (as you may have noticed, I usually ask people to edit their comments rather than remove / ban as you may experienced in other communities).
Also, it’s Sunday, people have probably other stuff to do, so you probably won’t get an answer until tomorrow.
I thought it was just a couple problematic mods, I didn’t realize yall were forming a mod clique in private dialogues baking this behavior into the community.
There are only a few people keeping the whole thing running. Be it mods, regular posters, admins. I literally just stumbled upon Admiral Patrick in another community talking about the last X-Men show. It’s more of a small town environment where you stumble upon the same people everywhere rather than a cult with gurus.
Which comes back to your point about harassment. In my case, I didn’t plan to encounter you on both of the communities I mod, but here we are. Would you have posted on !movies@lemmy.world or !moviesandtv@lemm.ee, it would have been a different story (and the mod team on !moviesandtv@lemm.ee isn’t really lenient. Trust my, I’m permanently banned there after I suggested changes to the community).
So it’s more of a coincidence than harassment (at least in my case).
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You are only one of the mods I’m complaining about launching personal stalking attacks across communities, though. Other people are free to call me a jerk, combatative, shitty, and plenty of other phrases here openly, but I can’t say somebody has bad taste as they shit on my post made to help people.
And do you not see how you are just breaking down the description of being outside the clique to being inside the clique?
To the people on the inside, it’s a homely group of friends, but to newcomers, it is a wall of judgment that has natural allegiances.
I’d prefer we don’t hash this out here, but since as you said I don’t have any other option, I’ll spill my purse.
You didn’t moderate the comments that were shitposting in your movies community, trashing on new input. You decided to single me out over a joke response against shitposters.
You didn’t moderate the direct personal attack paragraph written as:
People who make their whole personality about Star Wars, or Star Trek, or Marvel Comics, or whatever…
Are just as bad as potheads who make their whole personality revolve around the fact that they smoke pot.
The problematic line for you was
Sorry you have bad taste. I hope it gets better for you
And now you follow me back here to dismiss my input and defend personal attacks.
Like for real?
How exactly do you want me to moderate a post that you deleted yourself?
For one, most of the direct attack complaints are about mods in this not deleted post we are discussing in. I’m assuming you are wanting to single out the one comment that had a 30 minute lifespan in my 2 hour thread before I deleted the thread.
There was enough time for the comment to be made, for me to respond, for you to respond to my response, for me to respond to your response to my response, and again for you to leave nother response.
The direct personal attack was in that thread for half of that time, and our discussion was happening in direct relation to people shitting on a 25 year old film in a thread of me trying to talk to fans about a theatrical rerun.
So outcome:
You get to keep the commenters who will shit on new input, and you will lose somebody who was willing to post and engage in your sub in a positive way, because his joke was too mean to shitposters.
But really, the question on your moderatorship is why are you letting people launch personal attacks on me here? Why are you attacking me personally.
I wouldn’t pay too much attention to OP
How is saying somebody’s input has no value different from saying somebody has bad taste?
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Removed by mod
Do you cry in every comment?
Lmao
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Hey, who knew you didn’t make friends by shit talking to somebody in distress?
If your opening statement is calling somebody else combative and shitty unprovoked, you probably should not expect a friendly response.
Had to get on your alt to fit in some extra crying.
If you open a new community to talk about dietary choices I’ll subscribe and even comment there. Let’s be the change we want to see
It wasn’t a diet community, lmao, it was a news community.
That’s what I mean, I disagreed with vegans in a news sub and was banned.
No problem. I will subscribe to your new news community, that you can moderate to your own liking. And you will prove that the discussion there is better and it’ll grow and defeat the other news communities. I’m happy to help you
