Come on son, we worked hard and ruined the economy and the climate and the nature, now be a good boy and pay for our retirement.
Exactly this, it’s not even the fucked up economy state that scares me the most, it’s the state of ecology that may make the place uninhabited in the pretty near future 😢
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I actually know a Lot of boomers who feel just that way. My dad is one he thinks its their right to destroy the environment because they can’t live forever.
Then you have the christian nuts who want to destroy it so that jesus will return.
But most boomers want take the money with them and leave nothing to future generations. Hell they do want to burn it all down and they destroy the American dream out of greed.
The me generation that only want them to have it all.
Let’s have a purge city. Every year, let’s say like a Burning Man City. Every one can come together and we’ll nuke the city at the end of a week long party.
Generation of vipers
The author of this article is not nearly old enough to be a boomer though. This is outrage bait.
Unsustainable system finally collapses under the weight of greedy spoiled generation when their children cannot compete with their parents enough to continue supporting said unsustainable system.
There fixed that shit.
Those fools need to get the fuck out of here with that nonsense!
Most boomers and whatever came right after boomers don’t even have decent retirements… That’s what’s sorta funny about all this. I know quite a few 60s and 70s yr olds that legit don’t have enough to sustain their lifestyles and still have to work. The system failed LONG before Millennials showed up.
Many of them went their whole lives “not trusting the stock market” just to literally have no retirement. Much of it was lack of education and access to the stock market when they could have been investing, but then at the same time it is a pretty stupid fucking system of retirement when without notice you can lose 40% of value because some bankers fucked around.
The system sucked for them that’s why they still have to work, but instead of trying to fix it, they just complain that it’s their kids fault.
And even the ones that have a lot of assets to be considered well off have a problem. They’re living in the only thing they own that’s worth a significant amount of cash.
Property prices have completely fucked everyone. Just because somebody can barely afford to pay 50% of their wages every month for the next 40 years in order own their own house, it doesn’t mean they should. It means they’ve got no choice because there isn’t enough.
oh yeah that reminds me of an 80 yr old lady I know. She’s land rich and insanely poor. Like if she sold all her real estate assets she’d probably have easily over a million dollars. But she doesn’t want to sell anything just cause. But she’s super poor. Like she literally needs a new roof on her trailer and can’t afford it. But is sitting on 7 figures of assets lol.
Hell my FIL is that way not that I’m thinking about it. He can’t take care of his house he’s in a booming hood in Houston and has like 8 acres to boot. He keeps borrowing against it to afford shit and still owes like 100k on it which would still net him a pretty penny for the whole set up. I keep telling him just sell the shit and buy a small home out right and get out of the debt and whatever, but he’s super stubborn about it.
This is literally my landlord too. She’s a nice lady, but she depends on my income to pay her bills…
She’s sitting in a beautiful town on a property that could easily get over 1mil, probably 2-2.5, but instead I have to live in her garage that has a leaking roof she can’t afford to fix… I imagine she’s just holding on to it for her kids or something, but she’d be so much better off if she sold. Of course I’d get kicked out in an instant and be in deep shit myself, but that doesn’t change what’s best for her.
I can sympathise. A home isn’t just a house. Depending on how long they’ve lived there, there’s a lot of memories wrapped up in that.
It’s not a simple financial equation.
Exactly. I think most of the people here don’t understand this basic fact.
Never underestimate the power of psychology and sentiment. If he sold it at his age he’d be left with what? A pile of money and regret? And at, say, 80 starting over is brutal. Living in a place he doesn’t recognize, away from anyone he knows, etc. It is probably why some people don’t leave struggling small towns, they grew up there and to leave is to start over and abandon everything.
alternate phrasing: boomers stuffed all their money in their bank accounts instead of building a world their kids could afford to live in.
As always it’s your fault that you weren’t born into a rich family. If you want to get rich you have to be rich, it’s not hard. Some of the dumbest members of our society manage it all the time.
While I can agree about their failures, “don’t save it’s bad for the consumer economy” can go to hell.
i’m not saying “don’t put money into savings”, i’m saying every now and then, people should make a decision that benefits the world as a whole rather than just their personal financial situation.
boomers didn’t sacrifice their own spending to build their net worth, they sacrificed *public* spending to do it. and not just public spending, but things that are literally free. like, deciding nobody should ever be allowed to build more housing anywhere ever, because that makes their real estate investment go up.
You should be able to do a little of both.
Are you actually saying that saving instead of being in debt is a bad thing?
If they stuffed into bank accounts instead of real estate, stocks, and businesses, the played capitalism wrong.
Corrected headline: boomers voted in austerity assholes and now their kids have to pay for it with their money
Oops
No one is mentioning upper management and CEO’s pay. The money is trickling up, and that’s more of a problem than all of the other factors combined.
UGH! I can’t figure out how to reply OR how to find communites/subs on this app!!!
I totes agree wif yew, doe!!!
Go download sync
not the person you replied to but I’m on sync how go I find new subs?
There is an explore button down the bottom of the app, you can search in there. To be fair I mostly just browse top.posts at the moment and haven’t really started to compile a list of sub subscriptions
thank you for your help.
Or any other Lemmy app that works better, no ads needed
I get your point, and I’m not saying that boost is the panacea of client possibilities, but here are my experiences with other clients (I’m also happy to be corrected if these gripes are resolved):
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The web interface. No ability to customise default views, when i go to all, it keeps loading shit as in trying to read it as new posts are added. Frustrating and I did not engage in the platform
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Jerboa, buggy as hell. Constantly crashing. Unusable.
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Connect. Good browser, but every time you comment you get punished by losing your place. No read tracking.
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Sync. Does almost everything I want. Some ads, wish it would hide read posts when I come back later.
I’m a much more valuable member of the Lemmy community because I use sync.
If there is another client that’s more betterer let me know and I will check it out.
I’d suggest trying Summit or Infinity.
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hey what if you’re on desktop? I’m new here but just trying to adapt, not complain lol
My Y daughter is doing well, maybe it will be shitty for her to buy a house or condo but she can. My Z one, yeah, I’m helping her, paying stuff here and there like groceries, microwave, etc, she’s in her own flat and all and is not too bad but still, rent is 40% of her earning. It’s ok to help your kids.
I absolutely agree! It’s not a competition, we are all living in the same world with the same problems.
Families are at the centre of any society. Families function best when they help each other out. Parents are meant to sacrifice to help their children, just as their adult children should sacrifice later in life to help them.
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Nope this is Lemmy we hate kids here just like Reddit.
I have seen absolutely nowhere near the same hostility people on Reddit have towards children and their parents.
Seems like you’re pulling shit out your arse to cause a rile.
Wrong. This place is going to turn into an antikid circlejerk in no time. There are already childfree and kidsarefuckingstupid communities.
christ, I was really hoping to get away from that garbage.
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In the literal sense, yes, but not in the context of marketing cohorts, which are usually based on birth date ranges and are used to group members of society who experience similar pressures and exhibit similar behaviors. Gen Y/Millennial and Gen Z are marketing terms, so it’s possible for a parent to have a child in each.
Thank you for the thoughtful reply. I was trying to be funny but it totally missed the mark and fell flat. Oh well 🤷♂️ I do think it would be nice if we didn’t find ourselves referring to our social constructs in terms of marketing cohorts.
Should have ended with an /s
After Trump, it has become impossible to tell if someone is joking or serious.
Indeed I will surely remember next time! Thanks for the reminder 😅
There’s also us zillenials born between 1990 - 1996. The defining feature is that we’re old enough that we were alive during 9/11 but were too young to understand the way it changed society at the time. Our formative years also occurred during both pre and post internet being everywhere.
What?
If you have 1 child born in 1995 and another born in 1999, then your children are of two separate generations.
Oh, I’m sorry, of course…it’s OUR fault that we’re broke!
According to Forbes? Of course is the fault of the impoverished they didn’t take personal responsibility. Forbes is a magazine for persons with stock portfolios.
That’s pretty much the main thesis used to justify capitalism. You have the money you deserve. If prosperity isn’t merit-based, then capitalism would be a horrifying abuse of the underclasses.
Ummm yes. Do better.
Good, perhaps the boomers will recognize how impossible the current structure is to live under and actually pay attention to what they are voting for…
Who am I kidding, that’s not going to happen 😭
A lot of people are in denial about the effects of policies they support.
Just look at the cost of housing. There’s a ton of NIMBY homeowners who are deep in denial that zoning huge swaths of cities to be exclusively mcmansions could possibly cause house prices to be artificially high.
As a NIMBY guy…I’m going to protect my investment. There’s plenty of affordable housing out there, it’s just not 10 minutes walking distance from an urban center.
I can go pay 20k cash and live in a trailer across town if I need to.
Edit: If you want to do it that way, you can rent said trailer for a pittance. I’d suggest you do, you won’t want to be there long.
Everyone wants low cost housing, no one actually wants to live in a low cost area.
Holy shit, you solved homelessness, good job! All we need is to have 20k in cash and then… wait.
First off, housing isn’t a fucking investment. It’s a human’s basic need. Anyone thinking a roof over your head is an “investment” can fuck right off because your line of thinking IS the problem.
It shouldn’t be an investment but the time to put that idea to bed has long since sailed.
Governments, like the one in Canada claim to want to build more purpose built rental housing and increase supply but without reducing home prices, a most contradictory statement. This kind of talk isn’t unique to Canada either.
The reality is that generations of people now have their wealth from their homes. Unless we’re willing to endure pain as a society from values lowering, and thus people’s wealth reducing( all signs point to the fact we aren’t), then the issues will only get worse.
Until we are, get ready for more variations of the same chorus “we’ve tried nothing and we’re all out of ideas!”
I mean, they described themselves as a fucking NIMBY. I’m baffled anyone even bothered responding to that type of BS.
Which brings me back to the 20k trailer…it’s dirt fucking cheap. If you don’t think housing is an investment, you can easily afford rent or payments on 20k over 10 years with a minimum wage job.
However…I don’t see a lot of people scrambling for the “affordable” housing.
If you really want to socialize living space, there acres and acres of really empty, really cheap land in the fly over states. Grab an acre of land somewhere and you can house 100s of people on it.
Something tells me none of those options are appealing to you.
Yes, because all the jobs are in the middle of the woods somewhere.
How did you get this fucking ignorant?
You have forgotten to factor in many things.
What will these differently-housed individuals do for income? Where will they work?
If they are in the middle nowhere as you claim, how will they physically get to their job? If they have to drive significant distances to get to these civic centers, then you have grossly underestimated the percentage of their income that would be slated for transportation.
Let’s do some math! Your fantasy $20k trailer with your parameters, with an estimated $1000 initial cost for service connections would wind up being a bit more than $27k after APR adjustments. Calculator That winds up being $222 per month. What a steal!
Federal minimum wage is $7.25. Taxes are a thing, so $7.25 turns into $6.52. An individual would have to work a bit more than 34 hours to afford just the dwelling.
We are assuming that this person is healthy, with nothing to prevent the individual from working.
Will this person have electricity? $122 or 18.7 hours Will this person have clean water? $18 or 2.76 hours Will this person require clothing? Will this person have healthcare?
Will this person take any prescription medication? Will this person have a dental plan? Will this person pay for transportation (the vehicle, insurance, wear and tear, gas, and incidentals)? Will this person support additional family members who are unable to work (children, elderly, injured, disabled)? Will there be air conditioning and heating in this $20k trailer?What will this person eat?
Going beyond the absolute basics: What will this person do for entertainment? One cannot honestly expect a human to live without some form of stress relief. Will this person have access to the internet? That is required for resume submission for almost every job. What will this person save for retirement?
An individual would have to work a bit more than 34 hours to afford just the dwelling.
That’s reasonable…that’s around 1/4 of their income which is typically the guideline for housing if you want a savings account as well.
For reference, that’s roughly what I put in to afford my mortgage.
The rest of it is fluff “what ifs” and kind of out of context. We could’ve had universal income and health but people keep going with the safe choices on votes instead of the things we really need.
A quarter of their income for housing…for a fictitious $20k used manufactured home. Mind you, we never included the taxes or the rental or owned land.
And the other items are not fluff. One has to be fed and clothed.
And since you opened the door, what do you pay for your mortgage?
Where do you live that trailers are only 20k? I live in a small Indiana city and the cheapest trailers here are over 30k.
Close to there actually. I see them go for that cheap all the time…It’s tempting as hell to liquidate everything and go buy one and retire.
Weird how I’m not seeing any for 20k no matter where I look.
You are trash.
“Low Income.” “20k Cash.” Pick one.
That’s kinda the problem, don’t you think? Your material interests have been set in opposition to people who want affordable housing in the area.
Sure, but let’s say you build a section 8 settlement next to my house. I’m moving…immediately, and so are all the neighbors.
The entire market there plummets and you end up with Detroit.
So great, you solved the problem for a decade. Now what?
Wow, you’re selfish.
It’s a safety issue rather than a selfish one.
Why don’t you just come right out and say you hate poor people?
I would love for the market to plummet where I’m at. Housing as an investment that outpaces wage is a primary problem here, if it crashed maybe half my income wouldn’t go to rent, and more and more people wouldn’t be pushed to the streets while people’s “investments” sit around empty, as they search for the perfect petless, 6 figure making tenant.
I should clarify…this is my only home. I’m anti-corpo buying property. It’s not like my 2nd home or I’m renting something out.
I have one house…I saved for 20 years to buy it, and I’ll be paying another 10 on it…it would destroy me if it lost 1/2 it’s value.
But because of that you are against the idea that it just shouldn’t take 20 years of saving and 10 years of payments for someone to have a decent home?
Honestly, that would be great news, and I hope you know many Americans would support deregulation of zoning laws for exactly this effect. A drop in housing prices is exactly what we need. People treating home ownership as an investment are the problem, home ownership should be more like owning a car: it’s a commodity, not an investment. We should not be subsidizing poor financial decisions, I feel bad for everyone wrapped up in it, but ultimately the system we’re in has been broken for a long, long time
Sure, but let’s say you build a section 8 settlement next to my house. I’m moving…immediately, and so are all the neighbors.
loooool so you don’t know what’s going on in Portland, OR huh.
And then the people across town need to travel somehow, so they need a car, and then they’re spending more on a car (lots more), and then they fill up the roads, and then we need to pay for more road infrastructure, and then we have more cars to replace with BEVs because we can’t possibly continue having gas cars around.
Or we can try to get more housing near to where people work and get the things they need, and we avoid every single problem above.
NIMBY isn’t even a good financial position. Think about it. Say your area is rezoned for mixed use and you start getting apartments and condos on top of store fronts. Land value will skyrocket and all likelihood, you will come out ahead. Ever wonder why Manhattan and DC real estate is so expensive?
So then the apartments and condos become more expensive due to skyrocketing land values, not solving the problem of affordable housing? You can expand current low density zones with limited medium density without impacting values too much, but NIMBY concerns aren’t completely crazy. Either new zones are created for multifamily high density and medium density housing instead of opening single family low density zones for these projects, or we accept that as a society we are fine crushing a percentage of the middle class to solve housing for the lower classes. The top 10% may take a hit on real estate dips from rental properties, but not crippling. We can spread the damage slowly, but houses losing 10-30% value will cause a miniature 2008 wherever that happens.
This was caused by housing becoming a cornerstone step into and for remaining in the middle class instead of being a commodity like it was pre 1970/80. That probably wasn’t a good idea, but changing that removes the largest remaining leg of the middle class. All options moving forward will suck I think, and it will take a lot of work to resolve.
Now look at home prices next to low cost areas…
Let me tell you a story, when I was looking for my house we found a gorgeous 6 bed 4 ba all brick house with like 3500 sq feet for around 250k…it’s an insane price for that house.
I looked at it and found out there’s a section 8 unit next door. After asking around it ends up the place gets robbed every 2 months and the sellers are trying to give it away.
It ended up going for 175k.
That’s should have been close to a million dollar piece of property…now it’s a mom and pop tax firm.
Your momma is a hoe.
A concise rebuttal.
I do want to point out that no one is actually complaining about price of just building per say. Trailer is fine and all, but does that 20k cover land and basic utilities like water and heating/cooling (Is it well insulated?) in reasonable price and effort? Is Trailer Park actually located close enough to jobs (I don’t remember gas and time being free) and it is secure from natural disaster?
That aside, NIMBY mindset is generally dumb stance when everyone is taking it. So there’s that.
Utilities are really up to your usage, but all in would be maybe 500$ a month. That includes all the above plus lot fees.
The walk from there to downtown is 20 minutes…the walk to the two major employers in my area would be 30-ish minutes.
You have to work 76.7 hours to afford utilities.
Assuming that these individuals are able- bodied to walk.
Which again…those are out of scope. Even if the house were free, they’d still have to pay those things.
It sucks, I agree, but the price of housing doesn’t really matter in the face of our energy crisis.
Normally, the meaning of an investment is that they take a measure of effort, and sometimes, they don’t pan out.
But houses will always pan out, because everyone wants them, because they’re usually expected to go up in value, because everyone wants them, because they’re expected to go up in value, because…
Someday, mark my words, it’ll be a gold-buying bubble that bursts.
No they’ll just sit there continuing to pretend climate change isn’t happening
A lot of them will recognize the problems, they just blame them on the wrong things.
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This is organized gaslighting. Dont get caught up in it.
Times are though, gotta bring home the bread somehow. It’s your duty to click on the article and rage share it so that the economy doesn’t collapse…
I mean, despite the rampant bootlicking seen in that generation, boomers didn’t create that system. They’re victims of it as well, just victims that generally refuse to see it. My mom absolutely has been fucked over by capitalism, and has fucked herself over helping her kids. But she acknowledges why, and agitates for something better. My dad is a victim of this shitty system, too, but was so brainwashed by cold war propaganda that he can’t see it most of the time. :/ tldr fuck the boomer politicians and brainwashers, try to help regular boomers realize they’re just as much a victim of this shit as we are.
Lead poisoning really did a number on that generation. While I’m also angry that they were complacent in what’s happened, as I refuse to be, it’s like blaming a severely handicapped kid.
Did you know we found out to stop including lead in gas in 1976 because school kids were getting dumber and less empathetic?
We knew from the time Thomas Midgley put lead in gas it was toxic, but it was cheaper. He also introduced CFCs to the environment. Sherman Williams reported in 1904 that lead paint was bad, but it took until the 1970s for bans to start, but plenty of places still have no ban.
The only solace in his detriment to humanity is that he died a terrible death. He got polio made a contraption to help him move around and got tangled and died of strangulation
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Because it serves are purpose. People don’t just fill their race cars up with leaded fuel for the pleasure of paying a LOT more.
We’re aware that it does make a difference. In something completely unnecessary. You can enjoy life without polluting lead.
Probably should talk to the multiple other “sports” that allow it in FAR larger and more harmful ways.
Whataboutism
Motorsports are by far the most polluting form of sport per capita. Hardly anyone can partake in them and those that do inflect massive amounts of environmental damage. It’s ok to like something, but we should still be mindful of the negatives a hobby can cause so we can at least minimize the damage. Like golf is fine, but we don’t need to use so many pesticides and build golf courses in deserts.
lol you got a source on that claim, or is it a “I pulled it out my ass stat” because I find it pretty hard to believe.
The MASSIVE water consumption, in addition to pesticides, and the plastics used in golf balls (going with your example here) that are left in the wild, in addition to the significantly higher rate of people who play golf, are likely far worse for the environment than a handful of cars having some fun. I’m not saying racing isn’t bad for the environment. What I am saying is there are things that are FAR more common, and worse.
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Clair Patterson lives!
What happens if you get 20% lead in your body? How are you supposed to remove any of it from your body?
I love how you all singled out a small subset of a pretty niche sport to be uptight about. No mention of avgas, which is used far more widely, and covers far more people. According to FAA nearly 250k planes still use it. They fly all over. They flyover your house, mine, everyone.
Or lead in ammunition, which is studied and proven to kill animals, and their young. The CA condor is a good example of it. They are still dying from lead poisoning, and lead ammo has been outlawed in CA. It only took until 2019 to outlaw it here, but I believe we are the only state. The recent fires here, that killed multiple condors proved that. At least one (probably more but I heard about this one) had lead in its system and when they went to try to find their young, they also had lead poisoning.
Oh and it’ll probably shock you to know, even in CA, you can go buy fuels (C16 and Q16 are the most common we see) and use them in street cars. Go to any classic American car show, and you can smell it. But yes, please single out a small subset of race cars as being the issue.
They are all an issue. Just because someone mentions one thing it does not mean the other things aren’t an issue also. If I tell you leaded race car fuel is an issue and should be banned, I am not telling you all other uses of exhausted lead are fine, or even “lees bad”. The post did but appear to be in any way constructed as an comparative analysis of lead use in order to author regulation from.
My point is that it’s likely the absolute smallest subset of use. There’s also a functional reason it’s used in race cars. Same is true of avgas.
There isn’t one for it being used in ammunition, for instance, which is simply a preference
Wait, the California condor is having a population crisis due to lead poisoning? Why won’t they stop lead use immediately?
I can’t tell if you’re being sarcastic but yeah, they have been dying of lead possessing since like forever. In the 90s, when the condor was something like 20 animals alive on the planet, organizations like the San Diego Zoo, started to push for the outlaw of lead ammo. It took until 2019 (apparently) to finally outlaw it here completely, yet the animals are still dying from it.
Lead poisoning from ingestion of lead ammunition is the most significant threat to condor survival, but other factors - including ingestion of microtrash and electrocution - also present challenges to condors as a species.per the national park service
Of the 213 condor deaths in the wild between 1992 and 2020, half (107) were due to lead poisoning, according to USFWS. according to us fish and wildlife
To answer your question why, people just don’t give a shit. Apparently lead is preferred because it’s softer than steel, and deforms in an appealing way for “hunters” and “gun enthusiasts”.
The thing to remember is that they had to rely on trusted authorities in the news or government back then. They didn’t have easy access to primary sources or alternate viewpoints that we have now. That’s why all they can do is pick an authority figure and put all their trust in them. They literally do not know any other way. To them “research” is finding a talking head they like or who looks “trustworthy” and then believing everything they say. It was an age of authority and now we’re moving into an age of transparency and they’re not happy about it. They expected that they would get their turn to be the trusted head of the family and now all their kids and grandkids barely want to talk to them.
Wow, that’s really eye opening in relation to my in-laws. You just put it all in perspective.
Another article that refers to millennials in third person because they have a target audience that will be dead in 10 years.
Then they go out of business.
Hmmmmm 10 years ? Probably not
No no. The system they built was great. The thing is, the system was changed by them, just in time to rob all the younger generations blind, then stood back and watched it happen, did nothing, and then they have the balls to blame us when we can’t independently thrive in the system they stood by and allowed to be built.
It’s cute, in a frustrating kind of way, that you think the system was either created that recently, or was ever meant to be anything but exploitative and oppressive and isn’t working exactly as designed.
Oh, I know the roots of the system date pretty far back.
Fact is that boomers made good headway, they started unions, health and safety, human resources… Stuff that was basically unheard of before that…
While health and safety still exists, most jobs no longer require significant health and safety protection. HR still very much exists, and also does very little for workers day to day.
Unions have all but been disbanded; if you work an office job, it’s very unlikely that you have a union at all, and it’s unlikely that any whispers of a union are happening.
As a result, most workers are getting shafted in salary and benefits, and on top of that companies are raising prices to inflate their profits even more than simply screwing their workers out of their salary, and you end up with trillions running companies, making hundreds of millions or billions of dollars a year…
This has been going on so long that the problem is completely out of hand.
Fact is that boomers made good headway, they started unions, health and safety, human resources… Stuff that was basically unheard of before that…
That was all started by the generation before the boomers. The boomers have only gotten only the benefits of those systems. And then started and supported the dismantling of those systems.
So… If the boomers didn’t give money to their children, what’d they do with it? Sit on it for 10 years, die, and then pass it to their children?
Articles like this are either missing the grand picture or they serve someone else’s interest: Making boomers spend their money on leasing luxury apartments and other crap, so there’ll be no inheritance. Leeches are the enemy of all generations.
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Let’s eat the rich. That’ll pass the wealth around.
Child free gang wins again.
Time and money. What a savings.
Same here! Well time at least… Finally I see a benefit to being completely undesirable! Lol
