• wjrii@kbin.social
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    9 months ago
    • Galaxy spanning empire with unseen emperor.
    • Spice as a valuable commodity
    • Desert planet to include skeleton of wormlike creature and suited inhabitants
    • Secretive sect of religious warriors with magical powers
    • Chosen one narrative with a dead dad

    Now that said, almost every one of these is sort of set dressing and skin deep, and changed drastically in some fundamental way. Lucas was also not exploring remotely the same thematic ground as Herbert. He owes some of the world building to ideas lifted from Dune, without a doubt, but also to Lensman and Flash Gordon and John Carter of Mars. He owes plot and structure to Kurosawa ad Sergio Leone, and themes to Joseph Campbell and three thousand years of adventure tales, fairy tales, and coming of age stories. the only thing “original” about Star Wars is the integration of so many disparate influences into a coherent whole. You could argue that Dune was exploring more sophisticated themes and had a more actionable morality, but Herbert was flattering himself that Star Wars was a “ripoff.” The influences were obvious, but they were just one hopper of grist for the Lucas mill.

    • Blue_Morpho@lemmy.world
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      9 months ago

      Desert planet to include skeleton of wormlike creature

      It clearly had a skull and looked like a reptile. It could have been a gorilla skeleton and people would try to tie it to Dune.

      Secretive sect of religious warriors with magical powers

      Fremen had no magical powers.

      Chosen one narrative with a dead dad

      Luke stumbles into adventure in Ep4. He’s only reinvented into the chosen one later. Paul was the Duke’s son and was a target of the Harkonen/Emperor from the start. It was a major plot point that Paul became the Duke at the death of his noble father. Luke didn’t strive to become his father and scheme his way into becoming Emperor.

      • wjrii@kbin.social
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        9 months ago

        almost every one of these is sort of set dressing and skin deep, and changed drastically in some fundamental way.

        I think we’re on the same team here, but it would be silly not to view Dune as one inspiration among many. I think Herbert was a being a needlessly salty MFer though. For the second point, I was thinking more the Bene Gesserit than the Fremen, and while “warriors” is maybe stretching things a bit, you wouldn’t want to get on the bad side of a reverend mother.

      • wjrii@kbin.social
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        9 months ago

        It’s only a throwaway reference in the original movie, but ultimately, as is the way with Star Wars, the lore was expanded and it was declared to be a sort of general purpose narcotic, possibly mildly involving telepathy, suitable mostly for inspiring organized crime plotlines. It’s pretty different from Herbert’s spice.

        • fidodo@lemmy.world
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          9 months ago

          The greater lore is so vast in sure everything has been referenced, but it’s not a significant point in the main story