One of my most active subs on Reddit was /r/MensLib, an open, pro-feminist, trans-inclusive space for people to discuss men’s issues without toxicity and without anger or violence directed at women or men. It was a (mostly) wonderful community that fostered lots of genuine, heartfelt discussion, and it would seem to me that Beehaw as an instance would be the perfect place for such a community to take root on Lemmy.
I’m aware of the community on lemmy.ca, but there is both an article written in bad faith (though I don’t think it was posted in bad faith) and a post from a bad actor on the front page that has been up for several days with no mod action, which concerns me.
Thoughts?
(Edited to be more fair to the most active poster on the lemmy.ca community, as I don’t think they’re posting in bad faith and I should have been clearer about that)
For sure! It’s been discussed last week with an admin: https://beehaw.org/comment/722094
Basically it’s in the cards, but the admins (rightfully) recognize that this space will require extra good moderation and care, so they need to be ready before going forward.
Oh, thanks for the link. I’m sorry I missed that discussion, but it’s good to know I’m not the only one who’d be interested in a space like this and I’m glad the admins are aware of the need.
Unfortunately, I am the primary poster on !mensliberation@lemmy.ca but I do not think any of my posts constitute misinformation. They are currently looking for mods if anybody is interested! See here: https://lemmy.ca/post/2116280
All that said I would definitely be active in a beehaw community.
EDIT: For anybody worried about misinformation or bad actors. This is the front page:
There’s a link in the top 5 posts to a “philosophy” article that cherry picks limited sources in order to misrepresent Stoicism as a philosophy as mere garden variety stoicism in the more modern vernacular, and then uncritically blames it as the source of all toxic masculinity.
Perhaps “misinformation” was a strong accusation, but articles like that are certainly not written in good faith, regardless of the intent in sharing them.
Perhaps I should edit my post to use less inflammatory language. Sorry.
I see. So the issue is primarily that you’re a stoicism stan. I will admit my primary goal was just to get people talking about stoicism. That said I definitely think the stoic brainworms could use some deconstructing with a focus on historical perspective. Copying my post from over there:
It’s important to recognize that the history of stoicism (because it is so old) has been integral in shaping masculine culture in the west. For so many people stoicism is felt more through it’s cultural influences than through any modern additions to the philosophy. I’ve posted this elsewhere but this video gives a brief history of stoicism and talks specifically about how this philosophy affected marginalized groups in the past and how that might explain why stoicism is still popular primarily among men. While doing so they try to make the case that modern stoicism is incredibly useful and attempts to draw a direct connection to modern CBT.
EDIT: For anybody curious about the article itself you can find it here https://imsmagazine.com/2022/03/07/how-stoicism-could-lie-at-the-root-of-mens-health-issues/
Well, that’ll teach me to read an article and then not engage in the conversation that follows. I’m not a Stoicism stan, as you say, but I have found Practical Stoicism a useful tool in my life, especially when it comes to recognizing and owning my own contributions (positive and negative) to my relationships.
I’ll go back and reply to you in the other thread so we don’t derail this one.
That actually means a huge amount to me. Apologies if I came off a little hostile with the stan comment.
It’s all good! I chose Beehaw for a reason, I will always engage in good faith and give you the same benefit of the doubt!
It honestly wasn’t my intention to call anyone out, I just had some concerns based on what I saw. I’m glad we get to continue the conversation 😀
Honestly, I wouldn’t be opposed to something like this. There’s already a feminism community, so having a mens liberation community also seems good because it can help men be better allies of other women, men, and gender nonconformijg individuals.
I really liked r/menslib, it has a good balance and the toxicity was dealt with very well. This is what a new community would need. As someone else brought up, this was discussed this week, I actually thought you were the same person.
Definitely an interesting idea and I would be a participant.
I’d be interested but I don’t think it’s really possible. These spaces are always overtaken by extremists on all sides. I’ve had my fill of it from Reddit.
Edit: changed “both sides” to “all sides”
This was not at all my experience in the specific community I’m asking about recreating here, which is why I’m asking.
I also don’t agree with the take that extremism of some form or fashion is the only natural course of human discourse. I’m sorry your experience of people has left you with such a negative view of them.
We all have different lived experiences and it’s very apparent here haha.
Even now after you telling me that you had good experiences there, it still baffles me how you managed to avoid all the extremists and have a generally positive overall experience.
I can’t even fathom that. Every time I interacted I got at least a Reddit Cares automatic suicide message and pretty nasty personal attacks and lots of people “questioning” my masculinity as if it was some intrinsic quantifiable substance.
Same thing in any gaming lobby I’ve been in with voice chat.
I’m not saying that it’s inherently human for things to break down. Im saying that I don’t believe it’s possible for there to be an open anonymous forum or place for dudes specifically where it doesn’t revolve into a bunch of nastiness. I wanna be proven wrong. Desperately. I’ve never experienced otherwise in my life.
Just chiming in that my experience has been similar to each of yours (you, and @Vestria ) in those kinds of spaces. There is the potential for truly positive social interaction even in anonymous dudespace but highly granular mod tools are necessary. Really, those tools are necessary in semi-anonymous and real name internet spaces too, and lemmy hasn’t got that specificity in mod and admin capabilities yet.
My interactions on Beehaw have convinced me that, once the mod/admin tools exist, it stands a great chance of being able to navigate the hosting of such a community with few/er of the seemingly inherent nasty tendencies. For what it’s worth, I’m one of the mods who was a vote against forming it before the tools we need are in place, and I’d volunteer to mod it if/when it gets created.
Reddit as a whole was an absolute cesspool, I don’t deny that. But some of us were lucky enough, through lots and lots of searching and trial and error and weeding out of bad eggs, to find a few places where we felt welcomed and accepted without judgment.
I’m sorry that you never did!
Luckily, I think Beehaw and Blahaj are doing an admirable job, and I’m happy to be a part of it!
Extremism comes in more than two flavours. Let’s not perpetuate the stereotype that there are two sides in every situation … that’s propaganda.
Obviously not just two flavours, guess I could have worded that better. Was trying to generalize.
There’s /r/menslib on Reddit which is well-moderated and I’ve never seen any toxicity there (not that I go looking for it!) so it is possible.
I’m sorry, but was that what it was on Reddit? I don’t recall if that was the specific one, but I’m sure I blocked one of those communities for being, well, offputtingly angry.
/r/menslib was actively curated to be a safe place for men to discuss men’s issues and allyship without toxicity, and we had a good balance of men, women, and nonbinary posters. Its most active mod was an LGBTQ+ trans individual who was very aggressive about purging trolls and bad actors, and I found it to be a supportive and reasonable place.
Now that I’m looking back, there may have been a /r/mensliberation once upon a time that unfortunately was a copy space of MRA, MGTOW, and Red Pill, but if it did actually exist, I never subbed or participated and it likely would have been quarantined / purged when the others were.
