I’ve tried lots of pens over the years. The ones I can remember:
- Conid Bulkfiller Regular
- Cross Aventura
- Jinhao 159, X450, (also whatever the Safari clone is, 777 I think?)
- Lamy 2000, 2000 Amber, Safari
- Montblanc 145, 146, 149, 320, 1912, Slimline
- Nakaya Decapod, Neo-Standard
- Parker IM
- Pelikan M200, M600, M800
- Platinum 3776, Preppy
- TWSBI 580, Eco, Vac 700
- Visconti Homo Sapiens Bronze Age, Dark Age
- Waterman Phileas Blue
I’m not much of a collector, so I have cycled through and gotten rid of almost all of these. I only have around ~10 now, just the ones that I really like, or are sentimental, or are just super unique. One brand that’s escaped me is Sailor. I’ve read about the 21K nibs and how people fawn over them. I know there are die-hard Sailor supporters and it seems to mostly revolve around this nib. But, $300+ for a proprietary cartridge/converter that isn’t made from unique materials seems like a lot.
So, if I was going to “try” Sailor, as a manufacturer, where does it make sense to start to see if I get it or not? Do people prefer the Realo (piston filled) variants? From what I can tell here and on /r/fountainpens people are mostly content with the C/C versions. So is it just the unique colors? Or is it just the 21K nib and nothing else matters?
I don’t know where you are based, but if in the USA be aware that Sailor pens have a dramatic markup over the home and other foreign markets. I generally advocate buying local but both my Sailors have come from abroad and saved me a lot of money. Actually I probably wouldn’t have brought them at all if paying US prices. My Pro Gear Imperial Black came form Amazon Japan for $200. The same pen is $470 plus tax in the US! My Cult Pens exclusive Gunmetal PGS Midnight Sky was $180. Regular PGS run around $220 and that is without the plating on the Cult Pens edition
Buying from abroad has its risks and drawbacks but when using a reputable seller it can save you $$$. The Gentleman Stationer discusses the situation here in his re-review of the Imperial Black. https://www.gentlemanstationer.com/blog/2019/2/2/battle-scars-revisiting-the-sailor-pro-gear-imperial-black-after-five-years
Also be aware that the 21k nib, while having very little flex, is actually quite soft and easily sprung or bent if roughly handled.
Did you keep your Visconti Bronze Age? That is one of the few pens left on my wish list but I know their nib QC is abysmal and if/when I have the funds I know I will have a hard time paying their prices for a pen that I’d probably have to send straight off to a nibmeister.
Thanks for the response. Any particular retailer you would recommend buying from? Is buying from Amazon JP fairly straightforward from the States or do you need a VPN or something? I’m not at all opposed to buying abroad, I’ve bought several of my more expensive pens from La Couronne du Comte (R.I.P.) and Appelboom since they used to include VAT in their MSRPs and remove it if you shipped to the States (and often with free, very fast shipping thanks to DHL! Just had to wait weeks or months for stock sometimes). Sadly this doesn’t seem to be the case anymore.
I’m used to all manner of gold and titanium nibs so not too worried about man-handling the nib.
No I don’t have either Visconti anymore. I initially got the Bronze Age in EF, second-hand, and unfortunately the vacuum piston got snagged while cleaning one time and totalled the nib. I bought a BB unit to replace it, and that wrote TERRIBLY. I had bought the Dark Age brand new in the meantime (with an F nib) that also wrote terribly. I sent that one for work, but by the time it came back I realized I hated so many things about the pens (the capping mechanism can become mushy for seemingly no reason, with no way to ever clean it out or recover it, you never know how much ink you have, filling is an absolute pain unless you pay extra for the special inkwell, and if you use it you soak ink in to the section which will slowly leech out on to your fingers indefinitely, no matter how much you clean it, thanks to the weird way the porous material interacts with temperature and moisture) that I traded them both. The Dark Age at least wrote well by that point, but I had to sell the other as known needing work. Yes you should unfortunately budget to send a Visconti to a nibmeister if you decide to buy one (and probably buy a tipping size large to make sure it arrives with enough material to work with - Italian sizing is incredibly unreliable). The QC really bothered me but the more new pens I bought the more I realized essentially all of them have terrible QC out of the box.
Both Nakayas I’ve had ran dry after a page or two unless the feed is under pressure. I have had to send half my (new) Montblancs to have nibs replaced, reground, or flow issues solved. The brands I’ve had the best luck with (bought at least two and had no issues) are Lamy, Pelikan, and TWSBI.
The only pens I still have are:
- Conid (currently being modified to take a vintage 1970s 146 nib)
- Both Lamy 2000s (one B, one F)
- Montblanc 145 (M), 146P (BB, modified), 1960s 149 (EF, flexy, unknown if modified, undisputed king of fountain pens for me), Heritage 1912 (B CI, modified), Slimline (XXF, modified)
- Nakaya Decapod (EF, flexy, has issues, don’t care enough to fix, but gorgeous)
- Pelikan M200 (F), M800 (M)
- TWSBI 580 (EF)
- Waterman Phileas Blue (M CI, modified but didn’t need it, just to add character - my first fountain pen and one of my last gifts from my late mother)
Sounds like your VIsconti experience echos my worst fears. I hadn’t considered the porous nature of the material being an issue for absorbing ink but that would also annoy me greatly. Thanks for the feedback.
In terms of overseas suppliers. Ordering from Amazon Japan was no different to Amazon US or UK. I didn’t even need a to create a new account. When buying from Amazon I normally ensure the seller is Amazon itself rather than a third party to avoid fakes although apparently this isn’t foolproof as Amazon sometimes mixes their own stock with that of third parties (see a recent Pilot Metro post). Cult Pens have been excellent and I’ve use them several times. They left a Lamy nib out of one order I placed but quickly expedited it to me when I contacted them to report it was missing. Their prices are good and you can get free shipping if you spend enough. I’ve also used The Pen Company for one order and they were great. I’ve heard good things about Pensachi but have not personally used them.
Unfortunately prices at Cult Pens and TPC look pretty much identical to USA prices… of course the model I gravitated towards (1911 L Trinity) just so happens to be a USA exclusive also. Ugh.
EDIT: Looks like the Sailor Profit Black Master is basically the same pen and $200 from Amazon Japan. I can live with that. Thanks.
Report back about how you like it when it arrives.
You will get a warning notice with this pen because it is ion plated. Sailor will advise to only use their inks in it to avoid plating damage and early reports from ion plated nib owners did suggest that the plating could be damaged, presumably from non-Sailor ink usage. There has been a lot of speculation about why this happened but a general consensus was that acidic inks could be the issue.
Both my Sailors are ion plated and I have chosen not to stick to Sailor only inks but have resiolved to be be selective about what I do put in it. Pilot Iroshizuku inks are generally neutral to slightly alkaline as are the original Herbin line and the DeAtramentis Document line. Waterman inks can be very acidic so stay clear of them despite their great reputation (Serenity Blue has an acidity similar to vinegar). There are a number of websites that have measured the acidity of popular inks you can reference. Also, a number of forum posts on Fountain Pen Network report and discuss the acidity of specific inks.
Well, mark one for Amazon JP, the pen got here super quick. It’s gorgeous. Mark one against Sailor though, they include a single proprietary cartridge and no converter in the box with a $200+ pen?!
Ah, yeah. They do that. Bad form.
Wow, your fountain pen journey has been much broader than mine. I’ve been in the hobby for almost 9 years and out of all of those I only owned a Lammy 2000 and an TWSBI Eco. But I also have other pens like Opus 88 and entry-level pens - like the faber castell Loom - and I’m quite happy with their performance.
Considering all of the above, whatever you do with Sailor, make sure that you can actually try the pen before even considering to spend money. Sailors are that kind of pen. I bough an entry-level Sailor - a PGS with a Fine-Medium (FM) Nib - after being in the hobby for 7 years and I was extremely disappointed with how it wrote.
It is such a shame, because the pen is beautifully built, feels great in the hand, and has aesthetics that I love. However, they tune their nibs in a very particular manner. The FM that came with my PGS feels much closer to using a sharp mechanical pencil than a regular fountain pen.
Some people call it the Sailor feedback, but honestly, for me it just feels scratchy. Unless you use extremely glossy paper, it is a frustrating experience.
Now idea about higher ranking models with broader nibs.
Just my two cents.
Hmm. I have definitely read about this distinct “Sailor feedback”, and heard that it resembles a mechanical pencil in feel. It’s difficult for me to conceptualize but I know some swear by it. I tend to prefer very wet, very broad nibs, but the problem is if it doesn’t write on junky work journal paper, then realistically I just never use it. The Music nibs are very enticing but I think if I want to have any hope of actually using it on the daily I’d have to go with an F or MF. I also know Japanese grinds tend to run pretty fine, so the Sailor F may be quite scratchy to my taste.
@Valdair Try Procolor or Somiko (Young Profit) for steel nib and Sapporo for 14k gold nib. For me the best one is Sapporo MF, and F and M are also good. Their nibs are a bit on a dry side, but it can be tuned. You may also try 21k, but it’s much more expensive considering the difference with 14k in writing experience.
It’s worth noting that almost all Sailor nibs are not flexy at all. Even Pilot Custom 74 F gives more flex.Since the 21K is what Sailor is known for, I don’t think I will bother if not for a 21K nib. It sounds like the pricing in the USA is indeed unreasonable and this has been well documented for a while - the prices I see buying from e.g. Japan make much more sense for a mid-range production C/C pen with gold nib.
