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And they are subject to the mental poison endemic to that region. It takes a long time and a lot of effort to purge that evil. I can speak from personal experience. It never goes away and it is a constant struggle to shout down that early indoctrination.
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Don’t believe everything you read. Yes a lot of that is true, but think about your daily life. Do you think all of that stuff really effects who your friends are, things you do with your family, the house you live in? The kind of things that effect your daily life, probably effect it no matter where you live (increased food prices, interest rates, etc.). Plus there’s hope that one day DeSantis will be gone and maybe a lot of those things will turn around. In the mean time…
I freely admit I’m sick of living in Florida, mostly for the reasons in the article and the dreadful heat, yes. But there’s a lot of good in Florida too. We have year round outdoor activities, regular launches into outer space, theme parks, pretty good beaches, no state income tax, lots of sunshine and hey at least were not Mississippi.
Just remember the source and the criteria used to make that judgment. Every place has pluses and minuses.
Do you think all of that stuff really effects who your friends are, things you do with your family, the house you live in?
Literally yes. How is that something you’re even questioning?
probably effect it no matter where you live
Of course, but the point here is that some places are effected more than others. My state has very low unemployment, and very low homeless rates. That doesn’t mean there’s no homelessness and no unemployment, but it’s many times less than some other states. Is that a matter of intentional state policy? Probably not. But you are statistically less likely to be homeless or unemployed here. Making matters worse, the median income in my state is $10k higher than the median income of Florida (basically a 1/3rd increase), and the median household income is $20k higher (a 35% increase). That’s nearly the equivalent of having an entire additional income in a household in Florida.
no state income tax
My state also doesn’t have one of those, and we don’t get leveled by hurricanes at an increasing rate while the salt content in our water table rises.
at least were not Mississippi
Compared to my state, mathematically there’s almost nothing separating you from Mississippi. Your population is higher but your households are just as poor. That’s a concern, given the number of shockingly wealthy people that live in Floridian cities. In other words, there isn’t much upward mobility in either state.
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Mississippi is literally the worst state in the country by actual, objective metrics.
Highest obesity rate, lowest life expectancy, lowest literacy, etc
I think they probably just forgot to look at Mississippi. It gets routinely ignored by media of all types. Most of the same stuff is going on there with the criteria that they dinged the other Southern states for.
But if you looked at real estate prices and general cost of living as the most important factor for living well, these Southeast states would be kicking ass instead of being “the worst.”
Florida’s real estate is very quickly becoming unattainable
Florida is not a normal member of the region so I don’t consider it part of the Southeast. Florida is just Florida.
It’s a nice place to visit for a vacation but I’d never live there either. Buying Florida real estate is a big risk anyway with climate change making all coastal habitats risky. I prefer my real estate to be a few hundred feet above sea level.
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No idea where you’re getting the idea I said it was fake news. It’s very politically slanted news, generated using specific stats to align with the narrative that they wanted to write a story about.
Please, by all means stay out of the Southeast if you believe it’s so terrible. I’ll continue to stay here, and enjoy owning my own house and land, with enough room that my family and pets can roam free in our own place. It’s quite nice to be a homeowner, and I couldn’t have afforded it in most of the rest of the USA.
I’ve been here voting against Republicans since the Bush Jr. term. Life has only gotten better over time, and since I’ve been living in such a low cost of living area I can afford to do everything I want to. Lots of wonderful people live here too, but if you generalize an entire geographic area as being all shitheads living in a terrible shithole, then you only weaken your own knowledge. Prejudice is mental weakness.
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Great talk, have a good one.
The culture war bullshit is doing significant harm to the red states. They’re alienating significant segments of the population that, you know, contribute to society, and the only benefit they get in exchange is approval from conservatives, but according to polls the transphobes are a minority even within the right wing.
It’s almost like whether it impacts your daily life depends on two factors (1) are you a targeted minority or (2) you are not a targeted minority but know anyone who is or care about them to any degree.
No state income tax means the richest people scoot by and the poorest pay the biggest share of their income on shitloads of tolls, the highest food prices I’ve ever seen, retail taxes, and insurance costs that would make your asshole pucker up the second the agent spit out the quote
If you have a lot of money and like poor people to suffer super regressive taxes, then it sounds like a fantastic place
Not Mississippi? You’re Mississippi plus tourism and a different name. That’s the difference
Oh and if you want a theme park that is actually fun, Ohio is the way to go
I don’t know why you’re getting downvoted. It’s like when people talk about “third world countries” as if they’re unlivable shitholes that couldn’t possibly have any positive aspects. Like you point out, there are many aspects to life that aren’t directly tied to politics and generally the day-to-day really isn’t that bad. It reeks of elitism and it’s alienating.
It reeks of elitism and it’s alienating.
What aspect of recognizing Florida as a shithole with a fascist governor reeks of elitism?
The part where Republicans are playing the victim about everything now, so if you insult them, You’re just an elite liberal
/s if it wasn’t obvious
Or you didn’t even look at the objectively shitty things about it and only hate it because the mainstream media told you too (not fox the most mainstream of medias, the OTHER msms)
This particular chain of posts has nothing to do with republican vs democrat. The person I replied to said “Plus there’s hope that one day DeSantis will be gone and maybe a lot of those things will turn around.” Does that sound like a republican being happy about desantis to you? As for myself, I said dismissing entire places because of a few negative aspects (i.e. the republican rule there), even if major, is elitist because you’re ignoring the day-to-day that the person I was replying to mentioned that includes many positives.
It’s not a liberal exclusive thing. Trump dismissed a bunch of “third world countries” as shitholes and that was actually who I was thinking of when I made my post. You just assumed I was talking exclusively about liberals because you treat politics as a sport with only two teams and that because I hit some key words in your mind, it made you assume a whole load of things about me and my post.
Why not? Many republicans want trump gone because he makes it difficult to really hurt people and be greedy the way they want to
The part where you ignore the rest of the state’s aspects, focusing on the worst parts only.
“Yeah, the rampant bigotry and misogyny isn’t so bad so long as you’re not trans, black, latino, or a woman!”
That’s not what I said at all. If you think that putting imaginary words in other people’s mouths is a valid form of argument, you’re just a basic trump-chode.
Rampant bigotry and misogyny is not something that I have observed anywhere in the 21st century. When you interact with people in the real world, they are generally polite rather than bigots. Try going out into the real world sometime instead of believing everything you see on the Internet that’s pushed by rage-inducing algorithms to maximize engagement.
I wasn’t making an argument, I was engaging in ridicule. It’s because I find your position ridiculous, you see.
That people are turning their noses up at places where they don’t live and assuming that the presence of some bad aspects mean a place is entirely irredeemably bad. Like the person I replied to pointed out, there are day-to-day aspects that often don’t intersect with politics and there is some good to be had there, so condescending pitying is not always warranted. You missed the point by going back to focusing back on the bad parts and dismissing the entire place as a shithole because of them.
And you’re assuming that the negativity is all assumptions. Some of us have lived in these places and also agree they are overall shit holes. But that’s not to say that when people talk negatively about some place that they are implying that there are no positive aspects. There’s always a silver lining no matter how bad something is, but it is in no way elitist to focus on the overwhelming bad aspects and not mention the few positive aspects.
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What a shocking revelation.
Weird it’s the south east whodathunkit.
It is weird, because the entire point of racist ideology in America has historically been for personal gain by slaveowners, but now it’s just objectively hurting their states’ economies. Are they really getting that much benefit from exploitation like prison labor and such, or are they just so stuck in their ways that they’d rather feel powerful over others at their own expense?
They’d rather feel powerful over others at their own expense?
Yes. Was there ever a question? This is the conservative ideology.
I guess we wouldn’t have LeopardsAteMyFace if it wasn’t :/
Lost the Civil War and still losing today. “Loser” has become such a generic insult that it obscures the literally losing nature of so many people that live in this area.
Never thought about loser actually being derogatory towards those of the south east.
- Texas
- Oklahoma
- Louisiana
- (tie) South Carolina
- (tie) Alabama
- Missouri
- Indiana
- Tennessee
- Arkansas
- Florida
I personally agree with this list. But, we have to be pragmatic here. This is what CNBC says they did:
“The study measures quality of life issues including crime, health care, childcare and health care, as well as inclusive policies on discrimination and reproductive rights.”
See, the last two skew this study. People in these shit hole states (not all, but at least enough of the voting public) don’t want inclusive policies or reproductive rights. So, to them, this metric is backwards. They would argue that living in California or New York was way more terrible because of the brown people and gays.
This isn’t exactly a scientific study. It’s taking objective data to reach a subjective conclusion. Neat headline though.
Edit: many if them are arguing exactly that in this thread. With a nice dose of racism and misogyny thrown in. Nice. I love when shit comes full circle.
I mean… if you want to move to one of these states as potentially any type of person (ie. perhaps not white and straight) then the inclusive policies are not an optional feature. If you’re a woman, having the government meddle in your health decisions can actually be life threatening.
For white, straight folks, and especially males, it’s easy to think these other two factors just subjectively improve life, but that’s because they already have a baseline level of respect and power in society.
Based on your take, I’d guess you’re straight, white and male.
Granted, I’m also straight, white, and male… But there are a hell of a lot of women who support abortion bans AND adore Mr “Grab 'em by the Pussy!”
I know one who doesn’t believe God would allow a dangerous, nonviable pregnancy to take hold in (or in the case of ectopic pregnancies, outside of) a woman’s uterus. She just doesn’t believe something as sacred as a uterus can have that kind of flaw built into it.
And even if you could convince her dangerous pregnancies were real, I think @Ohthereyouare@lem.ee was saying that Republican women would not agree that their ability to survive an ectopic pregnancy is good or worth it if it also helps the “sluts” they despise to have more “convenience abortions.”
Surviving might seem pretty good to you and I, but that doesn’t make that ability objectively desirable to the people voting against their own interests. And they would be offended if their access to healthcare was deemed “better” in a quality-of-life metric than access to a set of theocratic restrictions.
They would tell you, “well I’m happier. Liberals think they can speak for me just because I’m a woman and my opinion doesn’t matter! But if they asked me, I’d tell them I would prefer to live in a place where the sanctity of life was valued! They’d have to censor me and edit me out of their videos because I wouldn’t support their narrative!”
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I know one who doesn’t believe God would allow a dangerous, nonviable pregnancy to take hold in (or in the case of ectopic pregnancies, outside of) a woman’s uterus. She just doesn’t believe something as sacred as a uterus can have that kind of flaw built into it.
But I guarantee that the second that she (or any other woman with similar views) had a pregnancy that threatened their life, they’d opt for an abortion ASAP. They’ll rationalize that their abortion was justified and blessed by God, but all those other abortions are just “liberal sluts who want to kill babies” or something.
So what are we supposed to do to get them to stop choosing to be horrible like this? Can’t do nothing… ~Cherri
Reproductive rights is healthcare.
Yep. It is. That’s sorta the point though. “Worst” is subjective. Personally? I’d never move to one of those 10 places. But, a lot of them think that the lack of reproductive rights is a good thing, not a bad thing.
I don’t think that… But, a lot of folks in America do.
Just not a majority anywhere. Minority rule baby!
Did I mention majorities?
Cool, popular and correct are not synonyms
There’s only one thing worse than mob rule by a majority. And that’s authoritarian rule by a minority. So it doesn’t mater.
Lol that’s just what every populist jackass says to avoid actually defending their horrific views.
Abortion isn’t a right.
Only because the US doesn’t consider healthcare a right because we’re backwards af.
Healthcare isn’t a right because a right cannot be reliant on service provided by others. That’s just an entitlement given out by shitty governments. Not to mention that abortion isn’t Healthcare
Your right to a jury trial depends on the service of your fellow citizens, as well as the judge, etc.
Your right to vote depends on the service of many volunteers to work the polls, count votes, etc.
Rights are granted and protected by governments; whether they require a service is irrelevant.
I disagree that either of those is a right. They’re just procedural rules regarding government power.
I think the premise is that the laws on reproductive rights have managed to effect the overall availability of health care. So it’s not that the laws are bad, but some of them are written in such a way that it creates problems, or potential problems, for doctors. So Dr’s are overall not choosing to get into situations where the law could make them liable and are choosing to set up practice in other locations where the government overreach isn’t as bad.
The affirmative discrimination laws are generally hard to write well so they tend to add restrictions to people and businesses that are unintended.
It seems that those discrimination and reproductive rights are no longer ‘soft’ issues and this poll is acknowledging that.
If you want a good chuckle, here are the states that they say have the best economies. https://www.cnbc.com/2023/07/13/these-10-states-are-running-americas-best-economies-for-residents.html
Included in the top 10 are:
- Florida
- Texas
- Tennessee
- South Carolina
- Indiana
Isn’t the inflation rate in Florida the highest in the nation?
Best economies for CEOs.
One would only think that’s surprising or funny if they assumed that “best economy” and “best states to live in” necessarily have a one to one overlap. While I can see there being some overlap, l think we all know that business-friendly policies that foster economic growth almost always come with a suite of larger demographic costs.
The key is to seek balance between what’s good for business and what’s good for the public, and in that light it shouldn’t really come as a surprise that some of the most business-friendly states are also the worst places to live.
The difference two years makes
As someone from West Virginia I’m stunned we didn’t make the list. McDowell county is hell on earth. The northern part of the state really does hard carry the rest of it.
Economic and health factors in this ranking are severely downplayed in favor of hot social issues.
As someone born in Texas and now resides in Oklahoma I agree with this study.
So basically this is just a “10 states where you can’t abort your unborn baby and men can’t compete against women in sports” list.
I know you have the ability to read. Go use it instead of posting crap like this. ~Cherri
Go read the article. It’s basically a “who’s who” of stricter abortion and “gender affirming surgery” laws, all other factors be damned. Education? Pfft, who needs it. Infrastructure and technology? Irrelevant. Business quality and work opportunities? As if you’d care about that.
sweats in Georgia
Moved from TX to DMV in Feb and it’s night and day here. Love the idea of Texas but the reality didn’t come close.
Where is DMV?
DC Maryland Virginia area.
Don’t get me wrong it not a utopia but much better. I miss Bucees and HEB. There’s also just as many bad drivers here, and the speed limits are LOOOOOW. But folks are on the whole nicer (which to me is weird as I heard folks here weren’t as nice as in Texas). And where I used to live 4 hours would get you to Beaumont and here it’ll get you through three states.
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I moved from MO to IL and never looked back
This could be another huge talking point for Democrats, but once again, this great opportunity to ding Republican governance is going to be missed since Democrats are so utterly incompetent to sell their successes and attack their opponents.
The inflation rate has fallen down to 3%, which is one of the lowest in the industrialized world right now. Have there been Democrats all over the news selling that success? No, of course not. Gotta keep those wins well hidden, dontchaknow!
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No one thinks we will ever change those in the orange cult. Like zombies, they are long gone and collectively barely have one functioning brain cell.
Dems need to sell their wins to get their base excited - I’m so sick of the brasè attitude that most Dems have regardless of who their candidate is. They could have the most perfect candidate and they are always looking for someone else. They also need to get some independents on board. Neither party can win an election without getting some non-affiliated to vote for them.
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UBI is a joke and will only stand in the way of unity. To think the Dems should somehow rally around something that will never, ever happen is a pointless distraction. Might as well rally around the tooth fairy or unicorn and waste more time and energy instead of going after real issues.
So what are we supposed to do? How do we get things to improve on a national scale in any significant way for workers? ~Cherri
Support politicians who are brave enough to admit that we need to tax the rich and corporations at a higher rate, support programs that will bring manufacturing back to the US (no other industry is as bog of a job multiplier than manufacturing), support programs which lower the cost of entry for higher education.
Hand outs do not work. Not only would they never, ever pass Congress, they shouldn’t even be considered. UBI is a goddamn joke pushed by those who smoke too much weed and have no goddamn clue about life.
Corporate taxes shouldn’t be raised because corporate taxes are overwhelmingly regressive.
Hand outs absolutely do work, and while I’m not on the UBI train, all welfare programs should basically just give cash instead of stamps/benefits/etc
You’re basically just trying to sell doom & gloom to discourage people from wanting what is eminently attainable. Your reasons for doing so are your own, but one wonders if you’re just thoroughly indoctrinated, or if you have some other interest at stake.
Name ONE country which has implemented UBI successfully.
Many studies are ongoing, some with very positive results. Of course, they’re being hamstrung at every turn by conservative shitheads who want us all at the mercy of capitalism.
Amazing! The entire world is stupid, (insert as many additional derogatory terms as you wish). Except for you, of course!
Good on you mate!
True for values where “the entire world” is “Republicans and The Military (also Cops)”. So basically… false.
Twist the words, add words, deflect from the point, anything to advance your “superior” intellect. I see what you did.
Good on you mate!
P.S. It didn’t work.
Go back to reddit “mate.”
You can’t handle the truth can you mate? Amusing
Except none of this is swaying any republican. Some of these states are on the list because they pass exclusive legislation, seemingly overlooking any benefits otherwise.
No one cares about swaying hard-core Republicans. They are basically a lost cause. It’s about showing the entire rest of the country that Republicans can’t govern - aim at swaying those in the middle.
Not a single state in that list was a surprise.
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Whether you think this has a political bias or not, no matter what whose list you look up, they all basically say the same thing.
Red states are shit holes, more news at 11.
think about this when climate change wipes coast, and it’s too darn hot outside south of the Mason-Dixon line.
Yeah, thanks for that, assholes.
It’s democrats ranking states based off their policies, so of course the Republican states will all be at the bottom lol.
Headline should be: “Democrats say Republican states are worst states to live in”.
We should be posting political articles that aren’t clickbait echo chamber propaganda. Don’t let this become Reddits /r/politics, which was REALLY /r/democrats
“Something bad said against Republicans is propaganda” doesn’t sound fascist at all, huh?
Criticizing blatant propaganda isn’t fascism.
Can you provide a ranking where you would say these states would come out top? What kind of metric would you like to see being used?
Per capita membership to neo nazi groups?
I don’t feel like doing enough data analysis to get a perfect flip of these 10 being on top, but you could use criteria like low tax rates, abortion restrictions, and loose gun laws, and get a pretty solid inverse list.
The better question is what value do these lists have outside of getting a bunch of people who already agree with it circle jerking over how the incredibly biased list proves they’re right?
You didn’t even read their metrics did you? It’s based on crime rates, healthcare, quality of health, etc. Those are pretty objective measures, and ones that republican-controlled states often fight against (see: reluctance to expand medicaid).
It’s mostly influenced by abortion and trans gender policies though. It’s click bait and political click bait.
Here’s a completely unbiased excerpt about the “worst” state of Texas:
The Lone Star State keeps hacking away at inclusiveness, with laws targeting the LGBTQ+ population, voting rights, and the nation’s strictest abortion ban. Yes, there are enormous economic opportunities in Texas, and it is attracting people from far and wide. But this state also has some Texas-sized issues when it comes to life, health and inclusion. And it is one of the reasons that the state fell out of the overall top five for the first time in the 16-year history of CNBC’s rankings.
Are you trying to say that laws that impact people’s control over their identity are ok?
Just that the article happens to align “good” with the Democratic party’s top social stances. I find it extremely hard to believe that the state that left-leaning people are flocking to is the worst in the nation.
Look, I’m all for equal rights for everyone and the government staying out of people’s personal lives. I just don’t want the constant propaganda.
The propaganda… of judging based on those metrics you supposedly support?
It’s propaganda because it’s dismissing the idea that it’s generally a good state to move to economically. Lots of new high value companies setting up shop provide employment opportunities in a state where there is still land to develop.
I mean, Texas would be too hot for me but it seems a little suspicious that there is not a worse state in the union than Texas according to this.
By all means, if you can objectively come to the same conclusion as the article, great! I just don’t trust the validity of their findings and therefore categorize it as propaganda.
Just because there are opportunities doesn’t mean they are good opportunities. And even if there are good opportunities, they don’t necessarily comprise all of them. Just enough to draw in some skilled workers (who are still exploited, just better compensated).
But that’s beside the point. The implication of your comment is that the social issues are the ones that comprise the propaganda, not the economic ones. Just because you pivot to something else doesn’t suddenly mean you didn’t make that argument.
You can call it whatever you want, just know that you are badly misusing the word. Propaganda does not mean “anything I disagree with.” Never has.
Says the guy bleating conservative propaganda.
Respect for all is not a liberal propaganda conspiracy.
Um. Yes. It fucking SUCKS to be a woman, LGBTQ+ + community member, or a minority here in Texas. Good luck if you’re all 3.
This state is a steaming pile of shit and a blight on America. I wish it would secede, but only after the government offers refugee status to those of us who are sane and want to leave.
Then Texas can take its misogynistic, racist, bigoted, xenophobic self and go create its own country. And it can take Florida with it!
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Agreed. I was here for the 2021 Snowpocalypse. Bruh, idk how it was in more rural or northern parts of Texas, but in San Antonio the amount of snow was laughable for shutting the major metropolitan area down like it did.
I was on call for my job and I had to go in three times, and other than under the overpasses where the snow melted and then froze, driving was a non-issue. And yet…businesses were shut down while we all suffered through the rolling blackouts.
My husband and I were lucky, we were getting 15 mins of electricity every hour or so. Other friends were getting 3-5 mins sporadically. I could at least boil our eggs to eat throughout the week.
And now with this heat wave, all over the place ERCOT is advising Texans to keep the thermostat at 80. And certain areas have gone through more rolling blackouts because the grid can’t sustain the AC draw. I’m flabbergasted at this state.
I suppose that’s the only reasonable explanation that doesn’t involve rethinking anything.
I happen to agree with the deciding points but the title should clearly be “Worst States To Live & Work In according to Democrats. All 10 Are Republican States”.
Oh bless your heart you never learned to read.
Reading the article makes it blatantly obvious that it’s judged heavily based on metrics that are designed to favor things the democrats want
…like Voting Rights, Crime Rate and Child Care…?
“Life, Health and Inclusion” takes up 14% of the total points.
Lol crying about nonsense voting rights and demanding government child care are massive democrat talking points. What rock have you been under?
So do Republicans not want good Child Care or equal Voting Rights?
As it has already been said in this thread, which metrics would put these states at the top when even statistics published from Fox have the top 10 with 3 states from CNBC’s Top 10 and only 1 from the Bottom 10?
So do Republicans not want good Child Care or equal Voting Rights?
I’m not exactly a big fan of Republicans, but I don’t want the government wasting a dime of my money on child care, and I don’t give a singular fuck about voting rights.
As it has already been said in this thread, which metrics would put these states at the top when even statistics published from Fox have the top 10 with 3 states from CNBC’s Top 10 and only 1 from the Bottom 10?
Unfortunately, I’m a human and not a database scraper bot. I have exactly zero clue what numbers would put this specific combination of states at the top, and I really don’t care to spend the time crunching those numbers.
…how can one not care about voting rights? Do you want other people to decide for you?
And even then, the biggest factors are Percentage of qualified workers, Infrastructure and Stability of the Economy. I don’t really see those as loaded metrics.
And why should I give a singular fuck about cnbc’s list of personal preferences?
You shouldn’t, and neither should anyone else. Most people who care are either looking at this list and saying to themselves or elsewhere “this is biased bullshit” of some type of “this validates things I already believe”, and those aren’t mutually exclusive.
Judging a place to live by a limited set of statistics is fairly useless.
I would love to move to Texas. I think this person has a very very bias opinion.
