• Chriskmee@lemm.ee
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    1
    ·
    1 year ago

    Explain where I am debasing myself? If you are referring to a company paying me less than they make from me, how do you expect them to make any money, or even break even, if they don’t do that?

    • jack [he/him, comrade/them]@hexbear.net
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      17
      arrow-down
      1
      ·
      1 year ago

      If you are referring to a company paying me less than they make from me, how do you expect them to make any money, or even break even, if they don’t do that?

      • Karl Marx, Das Kapital
        • jack [he/him, comrade/them]@hexbear.net
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          11
          ·
          1 year ago

          You’re pointing out the fundamental contradiction of capitalism - bosses make a profit by paying workers less than their value - that is the basis of Marxism. We are all extremely aware that your boss needs to underpay you to “make any money, or even break even”. It is literally the reason we oppose capitalism.

          • Chriskmee@lemm.ee
            link
            fedilink
            English
            arrow-up
            1
            ·
            1 year ago

            So you propose they pay you exactly the amount you make them, and the company goes broke in the process, so now you also make nothing since you don’t have a job?

            • jack [he/him, comrade/them]@hexbear.net
              link
              fedilink
              English
              arrow-up
              10
              ·
              1 year ago

              No, we propose that there not be a group of people (capitalists) who own the business just so they can extract profit from the worker’s labor. The workers should collectively own the firm. We recognize that there are two primary classes in society: those who work for a wage that is less than the value they generate (the working class) and those who own a business and extract profit by underpaying their workers (the capitalist class). These classes are inherently in conflict, and the only resolution to that is socialism, which removes the capitalist class from the equation entirely.

              • Chriskmee@lemm.ee
                link
                fedilink
                English
                arrow-up
                1
                ·
                1 year ago

                So the people who put in the most risk and started the company get nothing more than someone who joined 20 years later? How do you expect companies to get created if the owner constantly loses more and more of their company the bigger it gets? Why risk any of this money in the company when it isn’t even his anymore?

                • ShimmeringKoi [comrade/them]@hexbear.net
                  link
                  fedilink
                  English
                  arrow-up
                  11
                  ·
                  1 year ago

                  What’s the risk they take? Will they be killed if their business fails to turn a profit?

                  Oh no, they’ll might have to work for a wage like the people they were exploiting.

                  • Chriskmee@lemm.ee
                    link
                    fedilink
                    English
                    arrow-up
                    1
                    ·
                    1 year ago

                    It’s a huge financial risk to start a business, most require a lot of upfront costs.

                • jack [he/him, comrade/them]@hexbear.net
                  link
                  fedilink
                  English
                  arrow-up
                  10
                  ·
                  1 year ago

                  So the people who put in the most risk and started the company get nothing more than someone who joined 20 years later?

                  They’ll get as much as they continue to put in.

                  How do you expect companies to get created if the owner constantly loses more and more of their company the bigger it gets?

                  State and worker directed capital funds that vet and invest in new firms.

                  Why risk any of this money in the company when it isn’t even his anymore?

                  We will structure access to capital such that we don’t depend on profit-sucking capitalists to grant it to us.

                  • Chriskmee@lemm.ee
                    link
                    fedilink
                    English
                    arrow-up
                    1
                    ·
                    1 year ago

                    They’ll get as much as they continue to put in.

                    Since they run the business I assume they will be making a lot more than the rest of the employees, right?

                    State and worker directed capital funds that vet and invest in new firms.

                    Do you really think that can work? I think you will have a very hard time getting people to agree to put their money into stuff like this.

                    We will structure access to capital such that we don’t depend on profit-sucking capitalists to grant it to us.

                    Ah, yeah, let’s just restructure the whole system into some untested idea, that’s going to go over great with everyone. How would you even start making this change?