Rare case where i want to read the article first-hand instead of on archive.is. I want NPR to know this is getting clicks.
These shit ass Democrats couldn’t even hold out for 24 hours after announcing “We’re going to stand strong!”
That’s a pathetic lack of spine and leadership to capitulate that fast.
Welcome to the fucking club.
I’d love to join the Fucking Club. Do you just meet up at a hotel every month and have an orgy or something?
And this is how you get folks to stay home on the couch in 2026.
PRIMARY ALL OF THEM
Hear hear!
And then yell at them in comment sections when the democrats lose to fascists again.
If you don’t vote for them… They will lose…
They’re not a hockey team where it doesn’t matter if you participate as a fan or not. If they don’t get votes then they don’t get political power.
If we do vote for them, we lose.
If we do vote for them, we lose.
- fascists
And what is the difference between them winning and losing? I’ve been voting for them for years and hating it every time and getting nothing but excuses.
The difference is that neo-liberals stop getting angry when a D is in office.
That’s it.
My (and other) country being threatened with invasion? Not only ruining your only economy but intentionally destroying countless others? Setting up nazi-esque camps? LGBTQ+ people being othered to the point of violence? What is wrong with you
Even if the Democrats did absolutely nothing the moment they got voted in to the day they were voted out, it’d be immeasurably better than the shit the Republicans are doing.
This way of thinking is why the rest of the world is getting pissed off at ALL Americans, not just the Republicans.
Edit: do some harm reduction and THEN fight for better politics. With the way things are going there’s only going to be one party to “vote” for anyway
That’s the cycle though: Dems win a scintilla of power, do nothing, and then lose to the republicans who fuck shit up.
Its been ratcheting like that my entire life.
It’s been “vote for harm reduction “ my entire life
It’s not ever going to get better.
And the world should be pissed at all Americans. We’re clearly fucking awful. I hate all Americans and I am one
Dems win a scintilla of power, do nothing
Because you can’t build things, you can’t fix things, you can’t make positive progress, with a scintilla of power. You can often BREAK things if you have a slim majority, because that’s easier than building things.
The two major things Democrats have brought us in the last 20 years have been Obamacare, which happened during the two months of actual control Democrats had, and the IRA, which was a masterful bit of politics that Biden and Democrats managed to pull off despite not having a supermajority.
So how do we break the cycle of Dems never getting enough power to do more than slap a band aid on things? Keep voting for them like I have for decades? Because that’s been working so fucking well.
And maybe if they acted like a goddamn opposition party Republicans wouldn’t be able to wreck shit with a bare majority. Like maybe don’t hand Donald Trump a blank check.
Because they haven’t actually won in a long ass time. Aside from the few months in 2012 that gave us the ACA, it’s been nothing but ties or Republican wins since the Bill Clinton days.
A political party that can’t get power should be destroyed.
The political parties are not fucking sports teams who go out there and play and either win or lose. You vote for them, or don’t, and they consequently win, or don’t.
And isn’t the first job of a political party to win those votes and hence the election?
Definitely should look into voting MAGA.
Anyone who has a problem with democrats losing so goddamn always is MAGA, got it
deleted by creator
And what is the difference between them winning and losing?
Are you fucking joking?
I’m frustrated. Democrats win and don’t get anything done because of republicans and then lose and don’t bother resisting the republicans.
Republicans make things worse, of course , but democrats don’t or can’t make things better.
that’s a difference. Right there. Dems don’t make things better but they don’t make things worse. I hate dems but until new party forms I will encourage people to vote dem or at least third party over staying at home because that’s put us here. Once the GOP is gone we can collectively give dems the middle finger. DNC knows this which is why they act the way they do.
People have been saying this since I was able to vote: “Just vote for the dems you hate now until they have enough power then we can vote for who we want.”
And in all that time the republicans have gotten more powerful.
There will never be a time in my life where the GOP is gone. And probably not my children’s either.
I’m frustrated.
Of course you are. As am I. But that doesn’t mean I’m willing to just “give up.” Yes I’ll vote against Trump at all chance even if it means I’ll lose. Because I may not.
I don’t want a leader who is fucking exciting or a firebrand. I just want a competent administrator who treats the nation as something to be preserved. And that’s a hard sell against a cheap auto-salesman like Trump.
Republicans make things worse, of course , but democrats don’t or can’t make things better.
But those are the only two options. So you pick a democrat and hope for the best.
If the democrats are the best we can hope for then we are well and truly boned.
And how much longer am I gonna have to hold my nose and vote for an asshole I hate before they get enough power to mean I don’t have to?
Will I be dead before I can actually vote for someone I want to be in office? And even then will they have a stroke and start schlonging conservative dick?
Politics is a game designed to be so infuriating that most people rage quit.
You’re saying this in a thread about a Democrat who won. What is the difference of Chuck Schumer was there or not? It seems to be the same result either way.
Do you know how Congress works? I’m trying to determine if I have to explain what a “majority” means or not.
Republicans never had a problem fucking shit up when they didn’t have a majority. Dems should be doing the same thing. Kick and scream and make the Republicans fight every step of the way. Stop rolling over immediately and letting them fuck us all.
Oh yes here we go another comment about if they don’t have a complete and total majority that they have no power whatsoever. What fucking bunk. He was elected as a senator by the people of the state of New York. He has a solemn and sacred duty to serve those people. It doesn’t matter if other people didn’t win election it’s still his fucking job. If he can’t fucking do it he should resign as should the rest of the useless parasites in that party who don’t feel they have any responsibilities left to the public.
What a useless party this is and what useless people who are loyal to it.
The complete destruction of civil rights, a stable state, trade relations, diplomatic relations, the integrity of elections, the actual health if the nation, so on and so on.
The complete destruction of civil rights
We lost Roe under Biden’s watch
a stable state
The Memphis police department got COVID money from Congress that went into the pockets of the officers who beat Tyre Nichols to death on Biden’s watch
diplomatic relations
We torched whatever credibility we had left on human rights issues by arming Israel while they carried out a genocide when Biden was president
the integrity of elections
Republican led states passed tons of voter suppression laws while Biden was in the White House
the actual health if the nation
See my comment about the destruction of civil rights
Boo hoo Republicans don’t cease to exist the moment a Democrat wins the presidency, therefore Democrats failed
Goddamn childish bullshit
Which has all happened despite me voting for them for the last 25 years
Bro wat.
Them winning makes it harder for the Chuck Schumer’s of the world to come up with excuses for caving to Republicans. Simply electing anyone with a (D) behind their name isn’t sufficient, but it is a necessary step one of unfucking the country.
Counterpoint: John Fetterman
Counterpoint: Kirsten Sinema
Counterpoint: Joe Manchin
Counterpoint: Joe Lieberman
Yeah, fair, but those are all step 2 problems. Like, Fetterman has been infuriatingly awful, but Dr. Oz would have been at least as bad.
We never get to step 2 because like clockwork they lose seats every couple years and we need those assholes just to keep a slim majority.
It’s been this way my entire life. Step 2 will never come.
Who are the facists in this context? Shubert or the guys he’s voting with? Asking as im not based in us
Schumer is a Democratic Senator. On lemmy, you’ve got some people calling Republicans fascist, and another group calling Democrats fascist. The Republicans did a sig heil during Trump’s inauguration, so I’ll let you figure out which one is fascist.
Schubert
Thanks. Im not very good with names
I was just poking fun, not trying to hurt anyone’s feelings…
All good - i missed the c. I’m not republican. I’m not even a united-stater but norwegian
Edit: no, you cant have our eggs
It just made me chuckle because Schubert is a famous composer. I can’t explain why I found it funny but I did.
Schumer is a Democrat so based on the context they’re referring to the Republican fascists
You should have voted blue because this time it would have worked for sure!
I mean, I’d rather have a milquetoast center-right Democrat than a fascist, given the de facto two-party system.
But maybe that’s just me.
What an irrational response that would be. I see this as even more reason to not be ambivalent.
I think you’re missing their point. They aren’t saying they are going to do that, or that it’s a good idea, they’re saying enough people are going to react that way for it to be a problem. It’s not good enough to be correct, you need to be convincing. Just because I can hold my nose and vote for the lesser evil doesn’t mean I’m not concerned that not everyone will.
Voters aren’t rational, and what Schumer is doing doesn’t instill faith or loyalty in the party. Two things Democrats need to motivate their base.
I agree, but we should all be very well aware that most voters are going to act irrationally and conduct ourselves accordingly. Any logical observer could see that the Dems candidate wasn’t as bad as the Repubs in 2016 and 2024, and look at all the good that did us.
It is stupid to threaten the GOP with a shutdown.
The GOP is already trying to dismantle the government. A shutdown would just help them do it faster.
A shutdown would just help them do it faster.
If this were true GOP lawmakers would be pushing for a shutdown themselves.
I think the most honest answer is nobody knows what would happen after a shutdown with this administration because they’ve just been making up federal law as they go this whole time anyway, but really the fact that Schumer and Fetterman want this bill to pass while Sanders Warren and AOC want it to fail should be all you need to know to know.
If this were true GOP lawmakers would be pushing for a shutdown themselves.
Weird how every time this is brought up, they dodge the comment, yet continue to get mad at Dems trying to do the one thing that would have stopped Trump.
I wonder why that is!
Holding up makes the dismantling a legal affair to be solved in the Courts.
This CR in Sec. 1113 (b) allows the President to begin sequestration, which basically renders all those legal cases moot.
This CR as is is the sole thing Trump needs to avoid any more legal cases related to firing whoever he wants and shutting down whichever department he feels like.
Section 1113 of the CR just basically says that if the President gets rid of someone under sequestration then the budget automatically adjusts to match no need to pass another budget, no need for Congress to get involved.
The Democrats could argue for this to be removed to keep the cases in the Courts, but once this passes with this language, none of those Court cases matter.
Well they’ll matter in that the cases will establish that they couldn’t be fired back in February but with the new law they can now be fired. So the cases will actually go on but to basically argue over how to pay the employees for those four or so weeks that they weren’t legally fired.
Trump has been ignoring the courts this whole time.
If a shutdown would leave dismantling of the government up to the courts then that sounds like exactly what Trump wants.
The courts are fighting back. A lot of people fired by Musky are getting thier jobs back. The executive orders are being challenged and revoked. Trump and Company have been using a gatling gun of disorder, but it is being countered.
It’s a delaying tactic. If the government shuts down, nothing can move forward. They can’t fire people and continue destroying offices because those employees all get paid through the shutdown but nobody can do any work. Any of the paperwork involved - pink slips, etc. can’t go through because there’s nobody there to send them or even read the emails.
If a shutdown helped the Republicans, then that’s what they would’ve been going for in the first place.
Every extra day it takes them is a day where things haven’t gotten worse for everyone and an extra day for the already fracturing Krasnov administration to continue to fall apart and eat itself.
To go stand on his soap box and talk a big game a couple days ago, and then pull this bullshit is just a slap in the face. This screams collusion or bribery or some other shady shit. It used to be a conspiracy theory to say this, but, there ain’t two parties. Its one party and a few outliers that aren’t invited to the party.
So it’s a bit of a catch22 situation… Shutdown the government by blocking the new CR or have the government demolished by accepting the new CR …
But the government will get derailed regardless.
The one thing that seems to be overlooked is that the Democrats are supposed to give opposition/resistance to the Republican plans, which does mean blocking a bad new proposal …
If it were up to me I’d use whatever media I can find and prior to the vote just loudly announce being against the new regulations, so just pre-empt republican fingerpoiting and take the sting out of their shutdown accusations…
I would rather shut down the government than allow the changes to who controls the money.
If Democrats vote yes on this then the spending power of congress gets handed to Trump/Musk.
If this passes then congress no longer has control of tax dollars
Schumers support of the bill honestly makes no sense. You’re exactly right allowing this to pass gives up all of the congressional spending power. Him saying the shutdown is worse makes absolutely no fucking sense. He’s voting to remove checks and balances. He needs to resign because he’s clearly not fit to hold office with that opinion.
The Dems have been letting Republicans do this shit because it worked to get them elected for years. “Oh look they did something bad, you have to elect me to fix this!” But they don’t fix shit anyways. If they don’t shut down the government, we need a new liberal party.
Not to me. Its like a trolley problem where if you do nothing someone dies but if you flip it has the exact same outcome. Seems obvious that its better to not have a hand in it.
It’s not the same outcome though. This one is pretty obvious. If you block the bill, government is stopped, can’t do anything. If you allow the bill, government gets more power to keep doing bad things. Doing nothing > doing bad things.
government is not stopped. we have had government shutdowns and things keep going. non essential government as chosen by the executive arm of the government are shutdown. I have been through two or three shutdowns. everything is not shut down. I mean I have listed why its actually worse if its shut down in this particular scenario. there is not more to tell. it really does play into their favor and the only reason they would not want to overtly do it is optics.
Ok who gives a shit. Doesn’t matter if it’s a full shutdown or only a 50% of the government shuts down or whatever. It’s a tool we’re denying the enemy.
Doing nothing > doing bad things.
I already went through that it plays into his hands. now he can furlough whoever he likes and the court can’t say boo. right now the firings are being challenged and that is a good thing. - Look im adding this here as I meant to put it before. My knee jerk reaction was the same. Resist no matter what but I have outlayed why its worse to allow the shutdown is all. Be mad thats fine. But I just thought it over and realized the shutdown could be and likely would be worse and just allow trump to do what he is doing easier. He effectively is shutting down the government on a permanent basis.
This Nazi run government has to be shutdown period.
It’s an oligarchy.
Don’t get distracted.
Nazism is not a fucking distraction, it’s something to wake the fuck up and pay attention to. Musk did a literal sig heil. They are fucking Nazis.
You’re too far gone.
As a non US person, it is deeply sad to read this two party crap even at this advanced stage of the collapse of your country. When are you lot going to learn that you already don’t have an impartial head of state, you don’t have impartial supreme court. Everything is political in USA. So you really fcking want to make sure you have more than 3 parties. You’re still not thinking outside the box, and you’re keeping this us them dynamic alive.
With the weaponisation of the DOJ, the dems have Kompromat on them too. They are all scared. They are all walking the same line. That’s why Bernie is so powerful, and people are doubting if AOC is up for the job.
The GOP is infected by Trump and anything from the McCain era is long gone. The DEMs have failed to lead since Obama. There are no two parties left. There is a carcass of an old political establishment leftover, and the only guy saying anything that makes sense is a geriatric that can drop dead any day.
Two parties will always get you to this kind of impasse. Truly saddening to see the lack of creative political thinking on a progressive platform like Lemmy.
Oh yeah, when was the last time your country had a violent popular uprising that deposed a highly militarized government AND managed to build an effective democracy in the aftermath?
“Just do a revolution bro” is the most useless goddamn shit
Username checks out.
What exactly do you expect us to do besides a violent revolt?
Stop voting for politicians who support the 2 party system.
Start supporting policies that do away with “representative” democracy altogether.
Move to direct voting.
Laugh at previous generations for not figuring it out sooner.
Violent revolt and sign an improved constitution
It’s a fine idea and despite being a longshot it’s probably the only way anything good ever happens in America again, but a word to the wise:
You go into a revolution with the people you’ve got, not just the people who have their head on straight. The ideological mix of America currently isn’t the group I’d pick for outlining the underpinnings of a new republic.
Not saying a revolt is a bad idea even, just making the point that we live in an imperfect world, and politics make for strange bedfellows. The sheer geophysical fact of North America means the rift between urban and rural can never be truly reconciled.
But it can be minimized, ideally a new US would go back to see if we can rework the Articles of Confederation with some lessons learned from the EU. The states have largely settled into their borders and I suspect that the stupid competition that caused the Articles to fail could be corrected. Also we really need to prevent centralization of powers into the Federal government and the executive from ever happening again.
Back in colonial times it was very feasible to keep the executive in check. Nowadays it is a technological fact that the executive needs nuclear authority just to be in a position to make a timely counterstrike effort.
At least, this was the dogma last I checked, maybe there is enough interdiction capability now to change this dynamic. I would be delighted to learn otherwise, but given the necessity of secrecy in these things any evidence must be compelling.
That said - Until the logic of MAD ceases to prevail, there is an insane sort of game theory rationale for an executive with extensive powers, regrettably. It’s hard to see how to get past the eventual nuclear war scenario without a one world government. With nukes we are walking a tightrope, but we cannot reasonably expect to do so indefinitely.
You could still have an elected commander in chief, just don’t invest so much civil power into them. They don’t need to have control over every fucking governmental department.
I’m only pointing out that nukes are fundamentally a threat to the rule of law. We can’t invent a world without them just yet, but we should at least think of them as a systemic threat to the world we’re trying to create
…what do you mean ‘besides’?
Besides? Huh?
In their infinite wisdom our forefathers gave us a winner take all system, and when you only have one winner you get a two party system or minority rule. It’s just maths.
Ranked choice voting would certainly help.
Direct voting would help even more.
It might actually solve the problem of oligarch rule and put power back into the hands of the people.
We can see why nobody is mentioning it now.
No doubt, but it would require a huge effort across all fifty states and has already failed a bunch of times.
I’ll be dead before we have ranked choice voting. And I’m not even that old.
This is the unfortunate reality.
These problems do not get solved because we do not care to solve them.
We only focus on distractions.
To have a real winner the president needs 270 voices in the electoral college, if a third party won enough States that wouldn’t happen, what then?
Same in the Senate and Congress, if neither the Democrats or the Republicans have enough seats to have a majority because of a third party, they’ll need to work with that party.
Just because it’s not part of the culture it doesn’t mean it can’t happen and that politicians won’t have to deal with it if it does.
if the cr passes then the administration will have a substantial slush fund from the departments and agencies that have been scuttled with which to do whatever they want with. a shutdown is really bad but the other options are worse. this is harm reduction
Silly goose, only progressives have to vote for harm reduction. Liberals can just go along with it.
I don’t like Schumer, or anyone in Democratic leadership, honestly, but I want people to think through how a government shutdown would go. A shutdown would almost immediately be felt by many people, as services stop, federal buildings and parks close, and people stop getting paid. These are all things people don’t like, and they are also all things the Trump Admin are trying to do, despite being deeply unpopular.
A government shutdown right now because the Democrats blocked a spending bill would be met with wall to wall coverage in the corporate media about the Democrats blocking the bill. The Trump Admin and the right-wing media would then have carte blanche to blame the Democrats for everything bad about the economy that’s coming down the pipe due to Trump’s disastrous policies. Unemployment? Closed offices? National Parks closed? Checks not coming in? The Democrats did that!
Right now, Trump and the right-wing media don’t have a leg to stand on when they try to blame anyone but themselves. A government shutdown right now would give their lies plausibility that currently does not exist, and it would be unlikely to extract any concessions from Republicans on this bill anyway, because many of them want the government to shut down, in some cases permanently.
Your description of what would happen already happened. We’re past any illusion that the Republican party gives a rat’s ass about the nation, constitution, or common decency. Either way is a path through hell, but at least the Democrats could have had moral high ground and an ability to get citizens rally around our last hope for non-violent options. That is shot to hell now.
A shutdown would almost immediately be felt by many people, as services stop, federal buildings and parks close, and people stop getting paid. These are all things people don’t like, and they are also all things the Trump Admin are trying to do, despite being deeply unpopular
Yeah, so the average voter is going to blame the Trump administration for what they feel because it’s going to feel like a continuation of their previous well publicized efforts
The Trump Admin and the right-wing media would then have carte blanche to blame the Democrats
Democratic lawmakers are not incapable of responding to that bullshit and pointing out how the economy crashing and essential government services being interrupted has been going on for weeks prior to the Republicans failing to keep the government they have total control over open
A government shutdown right now would give their lies plausibility that currently does not exist
No it wouldn’t, that’s only going to work on people who were looking for a reason to vindicate Republicans anyway and who have never and will never support the Democratic party. The average voter who spends five minutes a week tops following the news is going to say “Government not doing stuff? That sounds like Republicans.”
The Democrats should negotiate things they want I. Exchange for their votes. If the reps don’t want to play ball then they can pass their own bills. Blaming the Dems now is fucking nonsense and if Americans don’t realize that we deserve to rot.
Unfortunately, I think this may be correct.
You’re right. The GOP wants to blame the democrats for the economy and dismantle the government at the same time.
A government shutdown would let them do both.
That’s probably why the bad actors on lemmy are pushing for a shutdown.
What sort of topsy turvy logic are you going for here? That the best way the Democrats can oppose the Republicans is by giving them exactly what they want and voting to confirm all their nominees and legislation? The Democrats have been close to useless as an opposition party so far, because they can’t bring themselves to oppose anything in case it makes them look bad to Trump supporters.
Besides that, moderate lawmakers like Hickenlooper and Ossoff have come out against Schumer on this, alongside people like Sanders Warren AOC etc. Acting like this is just " bad actors on Lemmy " is nonsense.
If Warren, AOC, and Bernie bolt, Let’s Do This.
The GOP is actively trying to dismantle the government.
A government shutdown is in itself a method of dismantling the government.
It’s literally giving the GOP what they want.
That’s not topsy turvy logic. That’s common sense.
The GOP is trying to do worse than dismantle the government. Dismantling it is just the first step. The next step is replacing it with something to enforce their control and theirs alone.
Government shutdown delays that.
THey’re going to do that anyway, make them grovel for it
