I think a lot for the guys that follow these morons and buy into this culture did not have positive male role models growing up, thus turn to media for some guidance.
This does not excuse their conduct or self-delusion, but does explain why it happens.
They are victims as much as they are villains.
Very much so, which makes it all that more sad.
I’m in no way excusing their villanry, but most are so delusional that they won’t ever take a hard look at the way they are and wonder if they could be something else or if they need to change
this doesn’t mean much tho, considering people aren’t ever born ‘villains’. they all are created by something traumatic.
so sure, empathize all you want, but it doesn’t help anyone. simply enables it.
Empathy doesn’t have to mean letting them do whatever they want. It’s the only path to reforming them. I’ve worked with a young kid with no dad in the process of going down this pipeline. You have to challenge them on what they think they’ve learned about being a man, but if you don’t try to understand how they feel they will just shut you out. Ultimately you can’t make someone believe something. So you either give up and label them a lost cause, or you actually try to reach them and convince them person to person.
I think it does help in that we can approach our ridicule of them from a constructive manner.
“Your role models are taking advantage of you.”
“At least I don’t fail to hide my insecurities behind toxic masculinity.”
“You’re alone because you choose to be alone.”
I mainly feel bad with the young men who are not yet captured but are down that path. I’d like to think it couldn’t have happened to me but I had the luxery of going through that time of my life when that stuff wasn’t really around.
Though actually I had 4chan at that time and I turned out mostly well adjusted so they’re not completely blame-free.
people seem to think if you’re not in support of them or their position, then you haven’t experienced the same things and been on the same path. I saw where I was going and specifically changed it.
I’m still a depressed, alone, piece of shit, but I’m not a bigoted, fascist piece of shit.
They also never grew out of high school mentality.
What do you think they should have done differently? I am excusing their behaviour but I want to understand what should anyone with no positive male role model do other than turn to the internet?
well people can be both, victims of circumstance AND be accountable to their own agency that’s life its complicated and ambiguous. I bet like 20% of people with male socialization and no good role models haven’t become complete dicks
deleted by creator
I find it crazy that I didn’t really have any real male role models, but the media I turned to ended up being guys like Henry Rollins.
The “finding myself” period of my life pre-dated the existence of this manosphere/shallow-ass-masculinity shit, but the archetype has been around for far longer and there were plenty of slimy douchebags to look up to. Sometimes I wonder what spared me.
Don’t forget has never assessed what they have to offer, nor do they make efforts to improve.
That’s what most people tend to forget, unfortunately.
One of the harder moments in my adult life was facing the fact that I had nothing to offer at that time which was why only creepy much older gay men were interested in me as I looked like I was 15 at 25.
And if they do have something to offer it’s “you only want me for my status and money.”
The funniest thing about Andrew Tate is he’s so obviously overcompensating for being gay. I mean funny weird, it would be funny ha ha if he weren’t also a manipulative kidnapping rapist and grifter.
What makes you think he is gay?
The way he invites smaller men over to look at him in his boxers and fawn over him. I’m bi so it’s kinda hot not gonna lie.
That might be a weird form of narcissism though.
You know the two aren’t mutually exclusive?
True but it might mean he isn’t gay. I would be more inclined to think he gets off on the approval and admiration from anyone vs wanting sexual or romantic relationships with other men.
Removed by mod
He did a video of him and some dude playing Chess in his undies.
I play both sides of the fence, I have seen some hot femboy on femboy action, and I swear right hand to God that Andrew Tate video is the gayest thing I’ve ever seen. It’s gayer than 8 dudes blowing 9 dudes. I was ready to go back to women after seeing the THUMBNAIL of it. It’s that bad.
Even now I’m having Akira flashbacks of this video and the damage it’s done to me and god knows who else. Also, they can’t play chess. Neither can I but he definitely can’t.
And he’s a repulsive human being.
Sad that he can’t play chess given his father was a grandmaster
Nope, the funniest is his absent chin being desperately covered by suboptimal … whatever grows on it.
“Everything is transactional, especially relationships”
“The reason feeeeemales don’t want to commit to transactions with High Value Men is feminism and wokeness”
Such a romantic
It’s like Cosmo and their awful sex tips for women.
Keep them single, they’ll keep coming back to you.
People only offer derision towards people who fall for this (which is absolutely reasonable), but only a few see it as the fucking tragedy it is, no one gives a fucking shit about young men and their issues or gives them support, who are then taken wholesale by THESE bastards and turned into incels and/or nazis, had young men had any support from decent people we might have less people on the side of the bastards
bullshit. hating the world is just the easy way out, admitting you yourself are wrong is simply harder.
I’ve stopped believing that. I think there’s plenty of support for them online; people like Mark Manson have been putting out great stuff for years. (His writings helped me through a lot of stuff.)
I think the main problem is that improving yourself requires admitting that you were wrong about some things, and apparently that’s really hard to do for some people. Easier to blame it on the rest of society.
Usually if something is as easy for another person as it is for you, then they’ve been as successful in it as you have. That’s all I have to say about your readiness to judge others with that implication that you are better.
Ah, actually visited that link of yours, clicked through one article and it does look good. The only catch is that I’m confident most people with such problems haven’t ever heard about this guy and his website.
Fair enough. I didn’t mean to say it was easy. Took me about eight years to realise I needed to work on myself, and then a few more to actually do so . Back then pick-up artists were still a major thing, so I learned and then had to unlearn all that bullshit.
However, things won’t get better if we’re treating young men as poor, helpless victims of society and the YouTube algorithm, instead of treating them like, you know, men, and telling them to take responsibility for their lives and online habits. It’s just the same victim complex with a new narrative.
One of my favourite movies/books is Fight Club, because it takes this societal dissatisfaction and tells you to get over it by working on yourself. You’re not a victim, because you still have the power to change yourself. (Of course, the whole descent into violent madness isn’t something to aspire.) I feel that notion is sorely absent in this discussion.
Back then pick-up artists were still a major thing, so I learned and then had to unlearn all that bullshit.
Oh. Thank dear god I never tried.
However, things won’t get better if we’re treating young men as poor, helpless victims of society
They are usually victims of their own parents, who may have too differing behavior from what is common average (say, example 1) both asexual and thus treating nonverbal communication as something not very hard or important, and thinking that you’ll just learn it, or, example 2) too sexual, like, sorry, one of the parents being an ex-escort and thus their child incorrectly measuring the signals sent, or, example 3) both parents having grown with their mother only or with little attention from their father, thus again not learning the skills of communication for men, one can imagine other examples).
instead of treating them like, you know, men, and telling them to take responsibility for their lives and online habits
Responsibility is fine for most, not knowing what to do is a different matter.
You’re not a victim, because you still have the power to change yourself.
That’s a philosophical question. You may have noticed that what you eat and how you exercise physically and what news you hear and what people tell you all affect very much what you think and how. So whether you can consciously change yourself to some intended end is, again, a question.
There are PLENTY of people who cares about young men. Many of them are just in REAL LIFE not on the internet.
Teachers and social workers at schools, classmates (yes, you can make friends with real people too.), FAMILY. Even if all that fails, many, many NGOs need more hands and would welcome any young men willing to volunteer. They just need to go there IN REAL LIFE.
Thank you for being reasonable.
As a young man, I found plenty of support in a variety of places. You just have to take a very small leap of faith and reject the asshole energy.
Some areas or fields have a difficult time reaching men, including young men, and it’s not because they are not wanted. Let’s take psychiatry, for example. Many people already believe psychiatry is nonsense; add to this the common idea that psychiatric treatment is for cowards—and that cowardice is mostly for women (because women can be many bad things, but men can’t)—, and that’s a recipe for men scoffing at the idea of visiting a psychiatrist (and a psychotherapist, by extension).
I’ve also heard people complaining about a lack of role models, but there are excellent role models. I hope I am not wrong about them, but I admire Stephen Fry, John Oliver, Keanu Reeves, Bill Nye… I also like many small influencers. Some of them talk about being a man with great insight, such as @watchfulcoyote on TikTok.
I cannot say with certainty how free these radicalized young men were to choose a better path than the one they are on, and it probably varies from case to case, but I know there were and are normal and decent people watching out for them.
Who are these two high value men (lol) next to Tate and the other one with the selfie?
We need a starterpacks community!
With role models like this, This guy is a small life crisis away from “can you spare a crumb of pussy” to “does this rag smell like ether”
Sneako and his “I’m a little teapot” lookin ass with those goofy ass ears. Holding a dickhead like him or the Tates up as some sort of goal to strive towards is synonymous with “rock bottom.”
I get it - like I understand the mechanism behind why some younger dudes become infatuated with these figures. It’s the same reason boomer housewives get into the Law of Attraction or why people who don’t have a single fucking clue think Trump is going to fix everything if he could just get one more term in office… but I don’t get it.
Holding a dickhead like him or the Tates up as some sort of goal to strive towards is synonymous with “rock bottom.”
for real, have you seen the chin (or lack thereof) on tate? lmfao. might be hard to spot of course because he tries to hide it very desperately with his little prepubescent goblin beard
I think it’s CO2 inhibiting brain functions like lead did back in the day.
What a bunch of freemales
Kermit the sexist philosopher.
No, these people were always sexist, that’s why it’s so easy to hook them on this bullshit.
We are all socialised with misogyny (as well as cis-heteronormativity) literally from infancy (and those of us who are directly impacted sadly internalise them to a depressing degree), and that’s when we need to start fighting against it, not only once the misogynists turn violent (verbally as well as physically), it’s too late at that point (even if they can be deradicalized the damage they did is already done).
That is not necessarily true. People can and do change. Darth Vader was not born evil, after all.
Darth Vader is not real.
How insightful PrunesMakeYouPoop
deleted by creator
I don’t know about sexist but I imagine they always had the defect in their brain that causes them to be inconsiderate and difficult
God why is dmt lumped in with these idiots
You mean incels
So what’s wrong with the guy in the bottom left hand corner?
Apparently he’s some crazy tik tok “pick up artist”
Ew
