President Joe Biden on Friday ordered a historic change to the Uniform Code of Military Justice by transferring key decision-making authorities outside the military chain of command in cases of sexual assault, domestic violence, child abuse, murder and other serious crimes.
It was in the chain of command before? Wow gee I wonder how that could possibly go wrong!
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Why the fuck are these cases even handled by the military and not the regular criminal and civil courts?
Playing advocate, but that’s why UCMJ exists, at all. They should prosecute all crimes under UCMJ, or none. It doesn’t make much sense to only do certain crimes under civilian courts.
The UCMJ is also harsher than civilian courts when prosecuted appropriately. It has specific statues related to military-type crimes like duty abandonment and not following orders.
You don’t want to go to military jail, that’s for sure.
I mean, if UCMJ doesn’t consider prosecuting rape to be worth their time, it’s good that they’ve been relieved of that duty. Solders endure enough trauma, getting raped by those they serve with and under shouldn’t be par for the course.
The civilian justice system is absolutely not better at executing justice and is arguably worse on many ways when comparing similar cases. At least the rape kits get actually tested and processed in the military.
I wonder if you realize you’re commenting on a reply of someone telling a story about how one wasnt even investigated and then the rapist was promoted after doing it again.
There’s plenty to criticize in our civilian justice system, but that doesn’t mean there isn’t plenty to criticize in our military justice system. This is one of those things, the military is notoriously bad at handling sexual assault cases.
I was commenting on if it is worth their time. I find it to be a wholely unjustified statement given the fact that they actually conduct justice unlike civilian juridictions. If it wasn’t worth their time, they wouldn’t be addressing it.
Because the military has been fighting it for years. I remember having a SHARP class where the instructor was telling us that we didn’t want this, that civilians shouldn’t get involved in military matters and some other bullshit I can’t recall.
I was too young, dumb, and loyal to a fault to understand what was being said.
Supposedly to hold them to a higher standard, but like with police internal affairs it is just a way to deflect attention that would make the system look bad.
Just to spell it out:
Promotions are based on performance. After a few promotions, you have people that report to you. This means their performance is your performance. So the CoC properly handling rape allegations is against their own self interest.
There’s a documentary called the invisible war that covers this topic in excruciating detail.
Did I rape my subordinates?
Let me check…
Nope, I found no wrongdoing.
Here that, gang? Now stay in line.
Ahh good. The Catholic Church model of reporting and punishment doesn’t work so well
Works well for the church though …
I heard Pope Francis was changing that, cause yeaaaah…
Having it reported through Confession which by doctrine cannot be shared or punished, not really working out for anyone.
Works out great for the rapists
oh oh!!! now to the police next please!
Notice the absence of people telling you that Democrats and Republicans are the same. Wonder where those are…maybe too busy ignoring reality.
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By the recent actions of lefty content creators i’d say that group has almost completely lost relevancy.
We are seeing a sort of ‘cooling’ of bad leftist politics like refusing-to-vote and all-or-nothing mentality.
Which is good because if we have any hope to mitigate the worst of climate change for the disenfranchised in our society it’s with the democrats.
Your post bends like a pretzel to assert some thing or other ,but it reads like nonsense. And I don’t think I need to know more.
It’s my understanding one of the groups that say democrats and republicans are the same were the Bernie-or-bust crowd that sold their viewers a black pill towards voting, an example would be Kyle Kulinski, he recently spoke on how he loves biden and how biden-pilled he is.
Those were right wingers though, the were just trolls that were trying to convince the left not to vote so they would win.
Ahh, i suppose that makes sense, but it’s not like they really needed to considering prior to 2020 voters under 30 turnout was abysmal.
Someone program this bot wrong?
It replied to a sexual assault topic with barfing up a climate change ummmm…response?
I was responding to the comment about the people saying democrats and republicans are the same, does no one remember Bernie-or-bust? Those people said both parties are the same, but more recently those content creators are pulling way back from defeatist mentality. It’s a good thing.
Lol. Trolling never really gets old does it.
Hot take, but as bad as rape is - its nothing compared to the systematic fucking that is still running with flying colours both red and blue.
I’m sure we’ll see a million LGBTQ rights and bike lanes before a single major problem is solved - shit even if the FTC broke up a single super monopoly today I’d be suprised.
So I mean hey at least one of us is here
Do I need to call your nurse?
Nah I’m just tired of the constant heatwaves that line our overlords pocket.
Tbh to put it in simpler terms I feel like were in a sinking ship hand bildgeing out water when there’s an asshole on the other side of the ship ripping out boards for his own benefit - scoop all you want but the problem is never gonna be solved until we look at the root cause. Both red and blue are contributers and will never make a law against those with capital (who had an entire island dedicated to rape??).
Never mistake the lesser of two evils for good, path to hell is paved with good intentions
You’re catastrophizing here, and hijacking a thread. Please stop.
Oh man, thread hijacker. I haven’t heard that term for a LONG time.
@Sethayy@sh.itjust.works you should make a post about this somewhere
I mean, LGBTQ rights are only “not a major problem” to those who aren’t LGBTQ. But to many they’re absolutely critical too.
There can be multiple horrifying problems to fix. “All” would be stellar to fix, but “some” is still better than “none.”
LGBTQ rights and the damage we’re doing with excessive cars are things that need to be addressed and solved though? If people would get over gay people existing and stop being so easily led to outrage about it we’d be done with it by now and moving the fuck on. To the detriment of not a single person. It’s an issue because people insist on making it an issue. God forbid you mind your own business and stop worrying about what random people do with their genitals.
Imagine trying to “both sides” something and starting your comment with “as bad as rape is”. Both sides my ass. Only one side is trying to make slavery out to be a positive thing for black people (teaching this IN SCHOOLS btw), obsessing over where people take a shit, and trying to make women barefoot and pregnant again. Both sides is a lie people tell themselves to try and pretend there’s a valid reason to be a bigot.
LGBTQ rights and bike lanes
…
Giving people rights and building infrastructure. Major problems being fixed.
'course, but to quote the age old adage people are starving in Africa? shit we essentially funded government run in slavery in the mdidle east, but no of course everything is fine cause you’re able to get outside on your ride to work.
Sorry if this sounds a little harsh, I just worry the human brain gets some floating point rounding error when thinking about these issues, aka we can’t compare such big and small things - so things like this although positive are to most more of s distraction from greater issues like the super rich, than an actual solution (and like shit the rich had a rape island where we were just like dang, too bad no one can be convicted :/)
Not allowed to fix anything but the things of your choosing! In the order of your choosing! Bring everything else to a screaming halt!
I mean this post is able rape right? Obviously a horrible thing, then what do you think of the zero epstien convictions? Or is it OK to rape as long as its not directly in your face, so you can feel good about yourself.
See my previous comment.
Oh here I’ll copy it:
Not allowed to fix anything but the things of your choosing! In the order of your choosing! Bring everything else to a screaming halt!
I think this will work for your next reply too. And the one after that. Etc.
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Ya I get how it feels like nothing ever gets done, or only the ‘little things’ but that seems to be how it works. I have some things I harp on about (first past the post voting in Canada) and everything else to me is something small. We all have our major issues we’d like to see handled (anti-trust/corruption is high on my list as well).
But you can still count this as a win and complain about what is left to do. It is a huge deal to some people, for those people it was probably their #1 major issue, potentially life changing. Not you or me, but doesn’t mean we have to be angry about that.
And just an aside, but I’d kill for more protected bike lanes. I don’t know if you are able to bike where you live, but it makes getting from a to b not a total pain in the ass.
Yeah and I have no issue with solving problems of course, I come from small town Canada and an lgbt so I’ve seen a fair share of homophobia, but like if these tiny issues are used as smoke shields I don’t think people can properly rationalize that nothing I’d changing about the controlling powers, they’re only dangling such things in front of us like a carrot on a stick.
Get 80 year old crusty men out of office and we’d have climate change solved in a year and starvation in too - but you gotta walk before you run. I only see this as a (net) negative, because its convincing people ‘things are getting done’ while the scotus is actively saying they’re above the law.
That being said I do love biking and I’d die for an entirely bikeable city. But I’d be wrong to not first die for the people around me that can’t even afford a bike, nor could their farther, grandfather and most likely their children.
Till the next repub pres ovrrturns this?
Regardless, hope this sticks.
Maybe. But all the reversals are politically motivated so depends how much their base will get hard on reversing it. I’m sure there are other juicier targets for them to get through first. Unless it’s Trump. Trump seems to be more interested in the appearance of money and power.
Time for the floodgates to open.
Can someone explain the change to me? I do not understand how it was done before, why that was bad, and how this is different and better. (Things I probably would have included in the article, had I written it)
Historically, these investigations have been handled by the higher-ups in the chain of command. Say one soldier raped another and the victim reported it. Their mutual boss and that boss’s bosses would be responsible for any investigation and discipline.
They have the same negative incentive to provide thorough investigation and justice as college campus police do - because in the end it makes them look bad at their jobs and makes the institution that signs their paychecks look bad. So they just don’t. Often victims are ignored or worse, disciplined themselves.
This change will provide a third party not involved in the chain of command for reporting and investigation of sexual assault allegations.
Ok that definitely gives me some context. Thanks!
But wouldn’t them handling it properly, which is part of their job, make them look good at their jobs? ~Strawberry
No because that means admitting that it happened in the first place. It’s a huge problem with reporting. Remember “there’d be less Covid if we just stopped testing for it?” Same problem.
Investigating and prosecuting a rape means admitting that rape happens in your unit. Punishing victims to keep them quiet allows the bosses to continue pretending like it never happens
I’m still confused though, they know handling reports is part of their job. How would doing that part of their job well not make them look good at their job? ~Strawberry
They’re in the position of authority and there is a chain of command, soldiers are trained from the very beginning to obey the chain of command without questions.
To climb the ladder or gain more power, they have to look good. They’re not going to get promoted if their records have any “negatives”.
Who is going to verify the reports? Their bosses, which means they also have the same incentives to only want good stuff, in order for themselves to get any considerations for promotions.
When their boss goes up, the boss under them will likely get promoted too.
What the boss said, goes. There are usually far more consequences toward the victims and whistleblowers than the actual authorities.
That’s why there should be independent review process where these folks have no incentive to have good reports.
I don’t get it, why aren’t “holding sex offenders accountable” and all of the ethical and moral concerns enough of an incentive for those along the chain of command? ~Strawberry
What happens if the boss is the rapist?
Adding to @Chetzemoka@kbin.social comment: The military has a peculiar concept for responsibility in command, such that a senior officer or even NCO could have thier career totally ruined for investigating a rape. Not for other crimes, mind you, but some arcane language held that they could be held culpable for not having prevented the attack. Biden has rather firmly corrected that error.
Good addendum, I appreciate it!
I gotta say, I had zero expectation of anything from Biden, but he has definitely delivered a few pretty good somethings, and this looks like another one. I hope they have a great day today wherever the Bidens are hanging out.
I need some good news today and this was it. Solid work. And quick too.
Kinda surprised it took this long.
I’ve heard it said that women in the military get assaulted so often they’re basically the state’s own unwilling prostitutes.
If this only affects prosecution of crimes inside of the military that is already a great step but what I really wonder about is if it will also affect prosecution of war crimes committed by US military. Could someone elaborate please?
He said he didn’t “want to bore you with detail here,” but that basically,
“I know it may not sound like much,” Kirby said
The headline grabbed my support. This lines cooled my excitement. Thoughts from others? I feel like maybe the headline isn’t as much of a grand slam when I see this kind of waffling.
Saying “key decision-making authorities” sounds like exactly that: key positions. Moving key existing positions out of conflict of interest.
To finish your quote:
He said he didn’t “want to bore you with detail here,” but that basically, “this change required a completely different shift in the way these crimes are investigated and prosecuted by taking them outside the chain of command, which already had existing protocols in place in existing judicial system.”
That really explains it, I don’t know why you cut it off.
“I know it may not sound like much,” Kirby said, “but it’s a big change to the way the military did it.”
Why did you cut these off where you did?
Editing quotes like he’s Alex Jones.
I think my brain panicked when I saw the start of that first sentence and went into scan mode. Good reminder to read to completion before voicing an opinion. Thanks!
That’s the kind of vibe I get from most of the Biden administration’s actions. They make for great lists of actions to show that they’re doing something, but in practice how effective is it really?
Did you read the article or just the comment about the headline? OP doesn’t appear to have read the article.
So instead of following the chain of command we’ll just skip straight to the guy who dismisses the charges. Finally some efficiency around here!
Is it still cool and edgy to be fatalistic? I think I missed the memo.
